Are Statutory Declarations Applicable to Private Parking Firms?

Qaribbean

Hi all, he some great advice here before and back with something new, unfortunately!

My elderly mother just received a letter in the post from a debt collector and I immediately stopped her paying so I could investigate.  The letter came to my house as she’s currently staying with me; she now lives abroad and stays with me when visiting the country.  The letter states that the debt of £150 is in relation to parking at Heathrow Airport.  On the day of arrival, another family member used my mother’s car to pick her up and the reason given for the fine is “USE OF DROP OFF ZONE WITHOUT MAKING A VALID PAYMENT”.  The creditor is listed as APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd.

Now clearly the pick up must’ve violated the drop off rules, however the issue is that on the letter it states “All previous letters were sent to the DVLA obtained address for the registered keeper….Due to no response a tracing service was utilised”.  The problem I have with this is that there is a redirect on the address in question and therefore anything received would’ve been forwarded to my house - the original fine was never received!

Now to my question - can a Statutory Declaration be filed in this instance to claim the original fine was never received?  I ask as I recently done this for a TFL fine that was not received from over a year ago and successfully won - the Traffic Enforcement Centre upheld my appeal and TFL reissued the original fine (I had made a mistake so I was happy to pay £65 instead of £350+).  However can the PE2/PE3 forms be used with private parking fines or only TFL/local authority PCNs?

If the answer is no, what’s the best option to appeal and request to have the original fine provided as proof and to be allowed to pay?  I have a template I used in my case to require the collector provide proof of the debt - would this be the smart way to go?

Thanks!

Coupon-mad

The answer is no.

It will be a thing under the new statutory CoP (not called a Stat Dec though). But not now.

The keeper should email APCOA a SAR to see the NTK and all photos.

They've been issuing PCNs just for driving in the wrong lane at Heathrow.  Not even stopping let alone parking, which is why I will be making a formal BPA complaint about APCOA at Heathrow this month because this must stop.

The signs are appalling and there's also no way to pay at the site, so it sets people up to forget to pay later, even if they did drop someone off.

It's only APCOA and they can't hold the registered keeper liable. Can be ignored. But if I were Mum I would robustly email the scam debt crawler who is trying to extort £150 ( LOL!) and tell them she WASN'T driving, and to return the file to APCOA because they are pursuing someone who can't be held liable:

another family member used my mother’s car to pick her up

Obviously the keeper doesn't actually name the driver.  She COULD attach her evidence of inbound flight as absolute proof.

Then she knows she's covered the fact she cannot be held liable in law.  And can then ignore them if they carry on whinging.

What is odd, is if she was being picked up she can't have been dropped off that day.  No-one parked the car, but how about asking the actual driver if they recall taking a wrong turn and driving through the drop off zone without stopping?  If so, the keeper (Mum) could piggyback on the complaint I'll be sending the BPA if she wants.  The cases where the car didn't stop ALL need cancelling.

Qaribbean

Hi @Coupon-mad, you kindly advised me in the past so good to hear from you again!

I expected the no but wanted to be sure so thanks.

With regard to your point about the location of the charge, you made a valid point about drop off.  This happened in May this year but I asked my mother and she said the driver got a bit confused by signage and went to the drop off site instead of pick-up, so then she said she walked a bit further over to where they were - but they never "parked" and exited the vehicle, simply waited in a valid zone/area for her to walk over with luggage.

Also, the charge says "WITHOUT MAKING A VALID PAYMENT" and you just highlighted there is no way to pay on site - my mother recalls the driver saying it wasn't clear where/how to pay!  It does sound like Heathrow are being very underhanded in an attempt to recoup lost revenue given the turbulent last few years, but it's shameful if so!

The letter from the debt collector firmly states as a closing line "You have lost the right to appeal the charge" however thats clearly not true.

To clarify your advice on next steps:

1. An email to the collector stating that I (my mother) was not the driver of the vehicle and the original charge was never received, as such please return the file to APCOA because I cannot be held liable?
2. If a response from APCOA now arrives, reply to them clarifying she was not the driver at the time, with proof of her inbound flight and NOT provide the name of the driver?

Would it be entirely legal for her to do #2 above and ignore them after making it clear she was not the driver?

Thanks,
-Q

The_Slithy_Tove

Qaribbean said:

Would it be entirely legal for her to do #2 above and ignore them after making it clear she was not the driver?

Asking whether this or that is "legal" isn't really the right question. No laws (criminal or civil) can be broken simply by not answering a letter from a private individual or company.

What she can do safely is to ignore anything else except if it's a letter before claim or an actual claim (from the court). Either of these must be responded to, not because ignoring would be illegal/unlawful, but because ignoring such could get very expensive.

95Rollers

You don't need yo waste time speaking to the collectors as they aren't interested nor have the authority anywhere to cancel the invoice.

Deal with the organ grinder (Apcoa) and not the monkeys!  

If the keeper lives Or has since moved abroad and can prove that address then surely they cannot progress it?!?

Coupon-mad

Yes it is completely legal and legit to tell APCOA by email or letter that she wasn't driving, attach proof of her inbound flight and suggest the driver must have taken a wrong turn and there was no drop off but also no keeper liability.

Therefore, she can't be held liable, can't have been driving so there is no cause of action against the keeper and she will not be naming the driver, so APCOA can go swivel!

Then she ignores them.

95Rollers

Ah I thought so!  Game, set and match!  

Qaribbean

Thanks Coupon! 

I'll update if anything further comes from this.

Qaribbean

So, email 2 days ago with a reply from the Debt agent kindly stating:

Good afternoon,

Thank you for your email

We are solely debt recovery at this stage

Please seek legal advise

Kindest regards,

Then this morning another letter from the debt agent with an additional page setup to appear to be a personal letter from the “Legal Manager” (same as this https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6313355/drp-is-this-the-pre-legal-paperwork/p1).

ANYWAY…..!

I’ve helped my mother prepare an email for APCOA directly.  I found their site where I could put the PCN reference in and along with CCTV images the record states it’s with debt collection now.

Email I prepared is as follows:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing with regard to the above Parking Charge Notice.  I never received the original notice to keeper and was only made aware of this after receiving a letter from Debt Recovery Plus.

I am writing to inform you that I am the registered keeper of the vehicle but WAS NOT the driver of the vehicle at the time of this alleged contravention. 

Attached is proof of my plane ticket showing my arrival as I was picked up in the vehicle and was not driving.  

As I was being picked up, the driver may have made a wrong turn and passed through the lane unintentionally. However as stated, I was not the driver and thus cannot be held liable for your PCN.

I would advise that you inform Debt Recovery Plus to cease from harassing me for payment and that you cancel the Parking Charge Notice with immediate effect.

Kindest regards,

Any additional thoughts on this?

-Q

ab2000

You can try, but I suspect they will keep sending you letters.

To back it up even more you could try and find out what time her flight landed on that day.  That way you could prove that she was either still on the plane or transiting through the airport.

Coupon-mad

Yes send it, and also a version to:

Info@drpl.co.uk 

...quoting their long reference, not just the PCN.