Wise aka Transferwise vs HSBC have lost my money

shoi

I got Wise to exchange a significant sum from GBP to €uro and send to my account at HSBC France.  As they have several times before very efficiently. 
It's gone missing.  7 weeks have passed now.  Wise say they have done everything.  HSBC say it's up to Wise to chase it down.
What do I do now?
(I live in France.  The GBP came from a UK bank into Wise.  Will UK Ombudsman take it up?)

[Deleted User]

It's for Wise to trace the funds.
What have they actually said? 

shoi

This is "the final response"

Wise Europe SA/NV
Avenue Louise 54,
Room s52,
1050 Brussels

Thank you for your patience while we have been looking into your complaint. I will be
presenting below our position in the matter. Please consider this our final response that you
can refer to an arbitration body, should you wish.
Your complaint pertains to the payment NNNNN of NNNNGBP to EUR on your Wise
account PNNNNN. The money has not reached your recipient’s account. You would like Wise
to refund the money.
Below I have considered the actions Wise has taken, i.e. the cause and effect, and our
liability in the outcomes you have described.
Review of timeline
● 14 Jul 2022 - payment NNNNNNN created, funded and paid out to an account in
France (FR76NNNNNNNN)
● 18 Jul 2022 - you report the money not arriving
● 21 Jul 2022 - Wise asks for a beneficiary bank statement to escalate the non-arrival
● 22 Jul 2022 - you provide the statement
● 29 Jul 2022 - case is escalated
Wise Payments Limited is authorised as an Electronic Money Institution (EMI) by the UK Financial Conduct
Authority with registration number 900507.

● 9 Aug 2022 - you’re informed that Wise has traced the payment and that it may take
10 days
● 15 Aug 2022 - trace response received that money is with beneficiary
● 18 Aug 2022 - you request for a UETR
● 31 Aug 2022 - Wise responds about UETR
Our view
I need to apologise to you first that you have been left on hold for a long time while waiting
for a solution. We have to however confirm that Wise has processed payments according to
our Agreements with you and as such has fulfilled our obligation to you as our customer. The
payment currently has been shown to be sent out, and based on the message interpretation,
is going through some compliance check. Based on that trace message we can confirm what
you already know as well - that the funds are not released to your balances.
Next we have to consider what is Wise’s liability for a transfer that is sent out from Wise but
not released to the beneficiary account. We can verify that the money was sent and that
Wise has traced the money. As a service provider our obligation is to send your money to the
account you specify. When problems occur we need to ensure we do all we can to locate the
funds. Both parts of this obligation have been fulfilled.
To refer back to our Customer Agreement, which you as our Customer have agreed to:
12.9 We will use reasonable efforts to ensure funds arrive at your recipient’s account within
the notified timeframe. We will use reasonable efforts to ensure that the funds arrive in the
recipient’s bank account or payment account within the timelines notified to you or otherwise
specified in our FAQ section. We do not have any control over the time it may take for
the recipient’s bank or payment provider to credit and make available funds to the
recipient.
21.1 We are responsible to you for foreseeable loss and damage caused by us. If we do
not reasonably meet our commitments to you, we are responsible for loss or damage you
suffer that is a foreseeable result of our breaking this contract or our failing to use reasonable
care and skill. We are not responsible for any loss or damage that is not foreseeable. Loss or
damage is foreseeable if either it is obvious that it will happen or if, at the time the contract
was made, both we and you knew it might happen, for example, if you discussed it with us
during your account sign up process.
Wise Payments Limited is authorised as an Electronic Money Institution (EMI) by the UK Financial Conduct
Authority with registration number 900507.

21.8 We are not liable for things which are outside of our control. We (and our affiliates)
cannot be liable for our inability to deliver or delay as a result of things which are outside our
control.
Although we understand that you are not liable for the money not arriving, and we don’t think
you should suffer, we have determined that Wise has not taken any incorrect action or
caused the money not to be released. As such, we are not able to offer a refund to you
transfer order NNNNNN at this moment - the payment shows as sent out and Wise has
done its part in the payment completion.
Should any new and unconsidered circumstances arise after issuing this letter, we certainly
will reconsider our stance and review.
Next steps
We understand if the experience hasn’t been exactly what you were hoping for. Because
you are using our services in Europe, next you can turn to an independent arbitration body
like the Ombudsfin in one of the 4 languages - French, Dutch, German and English.
Requests can be submitted by e-mail or via the online complaint form available on the
Ombudsfin website. Please make sure that no more than one year has passed since your
complaint to Wise.
Contact details for the Ombudsfin Service
Website: www.ombudsfin.be
Email: ombudsman@ombudsfin.be
Mail: Ombudsfin, North Gate II, Boulevard du Roi Albert II, n°8, bte. 2, 1000 Brussels,
Belgium
Best wishes,
NAME
Complaints Officer in Wise
Wise Payments Limited is authorised as an Electronic Money Institution (EMI) by the UK Financial Conduct
Authority with registration number 900507.

shoi

Deleted_User said:

It's for Wise to trace the funds.
What have they actually said? 

SEE REPLY AND THANKS

eDicky

shoi said:

The payment currently has been shown to be sent out, and based on the message interpretation, is going through some compliance check. Based on that trace message we can confirm what you already know as well - that the funds are not released to your balances.

This seems to be the relevant info. It might be worth telling HSBC France that they do have your money, but it's likely that they are not allowed to inform you about the compliance process and you just have to await its completion. Ombudsfin are likely to be more useful than the UK ombudsman, if you feel the need.

shoi

eDicky said:

shoi said:

The payment currently has been shown to be sent out, and based on the message interpretation, is going through some compliance check. Based on that trace message we can confirm what you already know as well - that the funds are not released to your balances.

This seems to be the relevant info. It might be worth telling HSBC France that they do have your money, but it's likely that they are not allowed to inform you about the compliance process and you just have to await its completion. Ombudsfin are likely to be more useful than the UK ombudsman, if you feel the need.

Believe me I have told HSBC.  Repeatedly.  Yes Ombudsfin because I think they have power over both parties.

Compliance is a bit much.  Long standing customer, this sort of transfer on exactly the same route has been done a dozen? times.

Daliah

From what you have posted, your money has been with HSBC since at least August 15, so the thread title is misleading, Wise haven't lost your money. They also cannot do any more for you as they haven't got your money any longer.

You need to pursue the matter HSBC but if your payment has been picked for an AML investigation, you may have to wait a while before you hear more. It's all upsetting and annoying, I know but as a consumer, you cannot speed up these investigations.

[Deleted User]

shoi said:

eDicky said:

shoi said:

The payment currently has been shown to be sent out, and based on the message interpretation, is going through some compliance check. Based on that trace message we can confirm what you already know as well - that the funds are not released to your balances.

This seems to be the relevant info. It might be worth telling HSBC France that they do have your money, but it's likely that they are not allowed to inform you about the compliance process and you just have to await its completion. Ombudsfin are likely to be more useful than the UK ombudsman, if you feel the need.

Believe me I have told HSBC.  Repeatedly.  Yes Ombudsfin because I think they have power over both parties.

Compliance is a bit much.  Long standing customer, this sort of transfer on exactly the same route has been done a dozen? times.

Why would the Belgian Ombudsman adjudicate on a French bank?

As a side note, Transferwise appear to have done their tasks. It's HSBC France that you have to pursue. 

sheramber

Deleted_User said:

shoi said:

eDicky said:

shoi said:

The payment currently has been shown to be sent out, and based on the message interpretation, is going through some compliance check. Based on that trace message we can confirm what you already know as well - that the funds are not released to your balances.

This seems to be the relevant info. It might be worth telling HSBC France that they do have your money, but it's likely that they are not allowed to inform you about the compliance process and you just have to await its completion. Ombudsfin are likely to be more useful than the UK ombudsman, if you feel the need.

Believe me I have told HSBC.  Repeatedly.  Yes Ombudsfin because I think they have power over both parties.

Compliance is a bit much.  Long standing customer, this sort of transfer on exactly the same route has been done a dozen? times.

Why would the Belgian Ombudsman adjudicate on a French bank?

As a side note, Transferwise appear to have done their tasks. It's HSBC France that you have to pursue. 

Wise refer to the ombudsman for their processes, not for HSBC France.
 
Wise are based in Brussels, hence Belgian ombudsman.

Daliah

sheramber said:

 
Wise are based in Brussels, hence Belgian ombudsman.

Wise have offices all over the world. Their complaints processes, and the escalation if required, are detailed here: https://wise.com/help/articles/2235393/how-do-i-make-a-complaint

But the OP's complaint isn't with Wise. They need to sort the issue with HSBC.

penners324

Your money isn't lost, HSBC France have reason to believe it's Fraudulent. Complain to HSBC France then to the French banking Ombudsman