Stanmore Overnight Parking

Jetjet_12

Hi. I wanted to seek advice once more regarding being issued a PCN for nonpayment for parking. I parked overnight in Stanmore NCP on 04/07/22 at 19:14. I exited the car park on 05/07/22 at 09:02. I paid through my card on the car park machine. When I received the PCN I appealed with proof of evidence (bank statement) that I did in fact made the payment. However my appeal was refused on the basis that the payment did not cover the vehicle for the duration of the parking session. I have parked their overnight before and this was the first time that I was issued a PCN. It is my understanding that parking in Stanmore is good for 24 hours as it even tells you the expiry time and date upon payment in the machine. Even paying through the app would tell me the expiry date and time which is usually 24 hours. However their notice board does say £6 daily charges. Did i get it wrong then? I am planning to go to Stanmore and try to pay for parking overnight and take photo if I can and try to appeal again if I am right in my thinking. 😒Otherwise I will have to just pay £60 discounted PCN. Thanks so much

Coupon-mad

You never have to pay this. And you don't appeal in the way you think.

Template appeal and explanation about why NOT to write the story of what happened - is in the 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST' top thread.

Grizebeck

Coupon-mad said:

You never have to pay this. And you don't appeal in the way you think.

Template appeal and explanation about why NOT to write the story of what happened - is in the 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST' top thread.

Do as above. Dont bother with what you are planning

baser999

If it’s a daily charge, technically you were parked on two separate days, despite it being for less than 24 hours in total. It’s a bit like ULEZ - had planned to pick someone up at O2 after a show at 23:45 but by the time I was out the zone it wouldn’t have been until gone midnight. I’d have been in the zone for two separate days, twice the charge, so made them wait until after midnight.

KeithP

Is this Stanmore Underground Station Car park?

If so, you will be keen to know that it is covered by Byelaws - as are all London Underground station car parks.
See here -
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tube_station_car_parks_2

That means that there is no possibility of transferring any driver's liability to a keeper, which in turn means that if NCP don't know who was driving at the time of parking, then they have no-one to chase.

Did you give away the driver's identity when making your appeal to NCP?

Jetjet_12

Thanks Coupon Mad. I am reading the thread now. Will follow with the Byelaws which KeithP suggested afterwards. 

Yes it is Stanmore Station Car Park by NCP. I have not identified the driver too.

Also the date of incident was 05/07/2022, they sent the notice 22/08/2022 which I have received by 25/08/2022. On the newbies thread, I found this:

'If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to!) the a postal PCN must arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket.'

So they are outside of the day 14 as well so I think another point in my case. Thanks

KeithP

So your next stage is to compile a PoPLA appeal.
The third post on the NEWBIES thread offers a lot of guidance on that.

Jetjet_12

KeithP said:

Is this Stanmore Underground Station Car park?

If so, you will be keen to know that it is covered by Byelaws - as are all London Underground station car parks.
See here -
www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tube_station_car_parks_2

That means that there is no possibility of transferring any driver's liability to a keeper, which in turn means that if NCP don't know who was driving at the time of parking, then they have no-one to chase.

Did you give away the driver's identity when making your appeal to NCP?

Hi Keith. I wanted to ask what exactly does the Byelaws entail? I can't seem to understand the which part of the Byelaws I am covered. I have only read through several times the Byelaws 14 which is about traffic signs, causing obstruction and parking. Many thanks

KeithP

Paragraph 3 of POFA tells us that if the land is under statutory control - for example, covered by byelaws - then it is not 'relevant land'.

Schedule 4 of POFA only applies on 'relevant land'.

In other words, as I said earlier... there is no possibility of transferring any driver's liability to a keeper, which in turn means that if NCP don't know who was driving at the time of parking, then they have no-one to chase. 

What the bylaws themselves say is not particularly relevant.
It is simply the fact that the byelaws exist that means that any liability of the driver cannot be passed to the keeper.

And as you have confirmed that this parking event took place at Stanmore Station Car Park and we know that it is covered by byelaws and therefore there is no keeper liability, again I say...
If NCP don't know who was driving at the time of parking, then they have no-one to chase.

Johnersh

Also note that if the signs say 24 hrs, that is what is contracted for. If the sign is silent as to anything further it is reasonable to assume the plain English meaning of 24hrs and, self evidently with a computerised ANPR system they can monitor exact durations. There has been no loss of revenue, this is opportunism. 

FWIW, since it was referred to earlier, the London LEZ explicitly states that they have a daily charge midnight to midnight. 

Jetjet_12

Johnersh said:

Also note that if the signs say 24 hrs, that is what is contracted for. If the sign is silent as to anything further it is reasonable to assume the plain English meaning of 24hrs and, self evidently with a computerised ANPR system they can monitor exact durations. There has been no loss of revenue, this is opportunism. 

FWIW, since it was referred to earlier, the London LEZ explicitly states that they have a daily charge midnight to midnight. 

I went to Stanmore to check the signage and it is in small print that the charges apply until 04:29 the following day. I tried checking the cashing machine and same with the signage it did indicate that I am covered until 04:29. However when trying the app it has a conflicting information as it is charged on a 24 hour basis. Hence I have always been used to the app but on that particular day I didn't use the app. 

I think I will draft my POPLA appeal based on the keeper liability and byelaws as advised by Keith. Thank u so much for everyone's advise.