Save up to 33% on the cost of electricity

Section62

Cardew said:

QrizB said:

FreeBear said:

Cardew said:

If 0.8kWh is used by the vacuum cleaner it will ALL generate heat. (0.8KWh for per hour is incorrect)

Um, nope

The First Law of Themodynamics agrees with Cardew.

All* the electrical energy consumed by a vacuum cleaner ends up as heat in the room.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics

* You might lose a tiny bit as noise to the rest of the world. This will be more than made up for by the energy you yourself expend pushing the vacuum cleaner around the room.

The 'heat' generated by posters who cannot understand the First law of Thermodynamics, and think they are better informed than Albert Einstein, is wasted.

I guess Albert Einstein would understand the difference between theory, and the practical application of that theory.

Spherical cows..... of which this thread is a classic example.

Cardew

Section62 said:

Cardew said:

QrizB said:

FreeBear said:

Cardew said:

If 0.8kWh is used by the vacuum cleaner it will ALL generate heat. (0.8KWh for per hour is incorrect)

Um, nope

The First Law of Themodynamics agrees with Cardew.

All* the electrical energy consumed by a vacuum cleaner ends up as heat in the room.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics

* You might lose a tiny bit as noise to the rest of the world. This will be more than made up for by the energy you yourself expend pushing the vacuum cleaner around the room.

The 'heat' generated by posters who cannot understand the First law of Thermodynamics, and think they are better informed than Albert Einstein, is wasted.

I guess Albert Einstein would understand the difference between theory, and the practical application of that theory.

I am not sure of the point you are making?

Are you suggesting that the First law of Thermodynamics works in theory, but not in practice?

If you place in a room any type of electrical device, for the same amount of electrical energy consumed, the heat generated will be exactly the same.

So place in this room an electrically heated radiator, a fan heater, light bulbs, an electric iron, a fridge, vacuum cleaner, a TV, a radio, toaster, an electric motor, siren, speakers etc etc. if they each consume, say, 1kWh then they will all produce EXACTLY the same amount of heat.

For that matter a cyclist can generate about 100 watts of power. 10 hours cycling in that room and he/she will have generated 1kWh and produced the same amount of heat as the devices above.

To pre-empt those who will say that the lights, noise generated and/or motors on some of those devices will consume energy, this is true. However all that energy will also end up as heat. It wil! It really will!

However if you can prove the above is incorrect and want to make a lot of money; contact:

https://www.nobelprize.org/nomination/physics/

TheBanker

I use a slightly more practical version of this advice... I've turned the kitchen radiator off because the only time I'm in there is when cooking, and the cooker generates enough heat that I'm not cold.

I could extend this by turning off the dining room radiator and eating my meals in the kitchen, which will be warm from the residual cooker heat. I would not expect a huge saving from doing this though, especially on days when I am just using the hob or microwave rather than the oven.

When I used to use my tumble dryer, I could warm the house by leaving the door from the kitchen to the hallway open - the heat would travel upstairs. But I don't plan to use the tumble dryer this year so that's of no use!

Sea_Shell

Would it not be a completely crazy thought to only add additional lagging to the hot water cylinder next spring, once the heating isn't needed any more, and then remove it again in the Autumn?  (Gas CH & HW - non combi)

During the winter, any heat escaping from the HWT won't be "wasted" as it seeps into the rest of the house, and keeps our bath towels dry in the top of the cupboard. 

However, during summer, you don't WANT any extra heat leaking into the house.  So add lagging to keep the cost of HW down.

[Deleted User]

Practical advice like this is much more useful - relying on general entropy decay for space heating is less so.

TheBanker

Sea_Shell said:

Would it not be a completely crazy thought to only add additional lagging to the hot water cylinder next spring, once the heating isn't needed any more, and then remove it again in the Autumn?  (Gas CH & HW - non combi)

During the winter, any heat escaping from the HWT won't be "wasted" as it seeps into the rest of the house, and keeps our bath towels dry in the top of the cupboard. 

However, during summer, you don't WANT any extra heat leaking into the house.  So add lagging to keep the cost of HW down.

I'd say that depends on where the hot water tank is. I don't have one any more, but when I did it was in a cupboard in the spare bedroom, so any heat would be wasted because that room's not used often, so there's nobody to benefit from it. 

Sea_Shell

TheBanker said:

Sea_Shell said:

Would it not be a completely crazy thought to only add additional lagging to the hot water cylinder next spring, once the heating isn't needed any more, and then remove it again in the Autumn?  (Gas CH & HW - non combi)

During the winter, any heat escaping from the HWT won't be "wasted" as it seeps into the rest of the house, and keeps our bath towels dry in the top of the cupboard. 

However, during summer, you don't WANT any extra heat leaking into the house.  So add lagging to keep the cost of HW down.

I'd say that depends on where the hot water tank is. I don't have one any more, but when I did it was in a cupboard in the spare bedroom, so any heat would be wasted because that room's not used often, so there's nobody to benefit from it. 

Ours is on the landing between the main bedroom, en suite and a spare (dressing) room.    So we do use all the rooms.

TheBanker

Sea_Shell said:

TheBanker said:

Sea_Shell said:

Would it not be a completely crazy thought to only add additional lagging to the hot water cylinder next spring, once the heating isn't needed any more, and then remove it again in the Autumn?  (Gas CH & HW - non combi)

During the winter, any heat escaping from the HWT won't be "wasted" as it seeps into the rest of the house, and keeps our bath towels dry in the top of the cupboard. 

However, during summer, you don't WANT any extra heat leaking into the house.  So add lagging to keep the cost of HW down.

I'd say that depends on where the hot water tank is. I don't have one any more, but when I did it was in a cupboard in the spare bedroom, so any heat would be wasted because that room's not used often, so there's nobody to benefit from it. 

Ours is on the landing between the main bedroom, en suite and a spare (dressing) room.    So we do use all the rooms.

Personally, I think the saving from using slightly less gas to heat those rooms would be less than the extra gas needed to heat your hot water. The benefit of using residual heat is really only when you cannot avoid generating it in the first place. 

Where the equation may make sense for this winter is if you factor in the additional costs of lagging the cylinder, I suppose.

MattMattMattUK

Cardew said:
To pre-empt those who will say that the lights, noise generated and/or motors on some of those devices will consume energy, this is true. However all that energy will also end up as heat. It wil! It really will!

I don't think people are saying it won't end up as heat in the end (or at least I was not), but that it will not all end up in heat in the home. Showers, dishwashers, washing machines, vented tumble dryers etc. all eject significant amounts of the heat they produce from the property. So whilst 100% of the electricity used will, based on an infinite time period, end up as heat (the majority of that becoming heat fairly quickly), not all of it will be heat which can be used within the property.

TheBanker

The other thing is that some of these devices are deliberately used while the heating's not on. For example I do my hoovering in the daytime, I don't need the heating on while I'm doing the housework because the physical movement is enough to keep me warm. I need the heating on when I'm less active. 

In reality there may be ways to save a few pence here and there, but certainly not 33% of your energy usage!