Should we pull out of this purchase?

Bendy_House

littlecactus said:

⁃ We’re buying a house that has been down valued by the mortgage company from £400,000 to £380,000

⁃ We originally offered £385,000 and felt this was fair but the vendor wouldn’t budge from £400,000 (a reduction from asking price of £410,000, itself reduced from the original £425,000)

⁃ The house had been on the market for 6 months before we offered, with two previous sales falling through for unknown reasons

⁃ The vendor has refused a roof survey despite our surveyor recommending and us having some concerns from how it looks

⁃ The vendor has been difficult throughout the sale in a hundred small and large ways; including refusing lots of snagging (they redeveloped the house, they’re selling it uninhabited) even though they said they wouldn’t come below £400,000 due to the cost of likely snagging 

⁃ Our surveyor also flagged concerns with the drains, which we arranged a cctv survey for. This couldn’t be completed due to root and debris blockages and they ignored our requests to discuss next steps and said they wouldn’t speak to us until our mortgage came through 

⁃ They put the house back on the market with no notice after 6 weeks as we didn’t have a mortgage yet (our provider is slow, but no actual issues and the lack of agreed completion date due to unresolved issues is slowing it down as they prioritise by completion date) - we felt as retaliation for our request to discuss the drain issue 

⁃ They / their solicitor are refusing to speak to our solicitor about a planning condition we don’t think has been discharged (a condition of redevelopment was returning some greenery to the front of the house before habitation; this hasn’t happened and aside from the vendor saying “it doesn’t matter” we’ve had no further reassurances); the vendor says our solicitor is asking “stupid questions about silly drawings” (those drawings being the plans he submitted, which then were given a written condition saying greenery must be restored as depicted)

⁃ Due to the down valuation, should we continue we have three options:

     ⁃ Put in £14,000 more to keep the current LTV and so mortgage rate

     ⁃ Accept a rate that’s now 1% higher and while doable begins to stretch us financially (this rate has gone up 0.5% while waiting for a response from the vendor)

     ⁃ Ask the vendor to reduce the price; but we know they will say no, so this feels pointless

Two obvious possible reasons why the seller is being so defensive/unhelpful. One is that they have something to hide, and the other is that they have a personality disorder - arrogant, entitled, overinflated sense of their own importance. An 'ole.

I'm leaning towards the latter, as decisions like not allowing you to have a drain CCTV survey carried out, but then going ahead with their own smacks of power and control - it doesn't make any other sense (unless they were selective in the drains actually surveyed, or had this company in their pocket - both unlikely).

Their attitude towards the planning requirements - this greenery - is also weird and arrogantly dismissive, and I can't see any rational reason why - it sounds pretty trivial, and if the worst that you have to do is plant a few shrubs, then big deal. But this guy is MAKING it a 'big deal', one that could scupper his plans to sell; it sounds like he doesn't like to be 'told' what to do by the 'powers above'. Again, that smacks of HIM deciding what is 'important' - because HE'S the best judge. No-one tells HIM how to sort stuff... An arrogant, deluded, twit.

Of course, your parents shouldn't have got involved - please tell them to avoid this person from now on, and - if they can't - to simply not ENGAGE or REPLY to anything he says; he is 'using' them as part of his dysfunctional, controlling behaviour. Advise that they just smile and nod, let him finish, and then walk away. If they must reply, it's "Oh, that's for little cactus to decide..." No silly "Oh we'd love them to move closer..." or any such barlocks. Or even "If only you'd let them have a survey..." - they should say NOTHING! The guy WANTS them to kowtow like this. He's a control freak.

Are you being given a copy of the drain survey? If so, that should come with some 'guarantees' - the company's report should be accurate. If your folk can report to you that this is what they did, indeed, say, then I think you can take that as somewhat reassuring - whilst always being ready to factor in any possible extra costs if it ain't!

The roof would seem to be a bigger issue. What is it about this that gives you concern (apart from them not allowing a survey?) Could you post a photo?

If, say, the roof covering - tiles/slates - are in generally good condition, then at least you shouldn't have that outlay in even the worst case scenario. Ie, if the roof needs stripping, most of it should be reusable. If the roofline is wobbly, and this is on an age of property that shouldn't be, then that could well mean a whole new roof. That's worst-case too - very possibly it can be propped and reinforced.

Ok, the current situation...

1) This guy is an 'ole. Nuts. Unreasonable. Irrational. A complete git. You know this. So just ignore that bit for now :-) YOU be rational and sensible and unemotive. Do not say to your solicitor or EA or anyone that this person is 'unreasonable', just treat this whole process in a clear-headed manner. PURE FACTS ONLY.

2) This house was on the market for 6 months, and had two previous offers fall through. Hmmm, it sounds overpriced. (Or, it was simply this guy's attitude wot sunk it).  What's the market doing in your area - cooling down? If so, don't entertain offering more in order to clinch it. You'd be more nutty than nut guy.

3) Your mortgage co valued it at £380k. As far as you are concerned, then, that's the MOST they will lend on this house, and that doesn't even take into account if it needs extra work.

4) You are close-to-the-edge financially on this place?

5) The guy is an 'ole. (Worth saying twice...)

What to do is obviously up to you, but I personally would not just walk, but would come at this from a position where I knew I'd be happy with the outcome. There are some aspects of this that I would make a risk-judgement on, and others that I probably wouldn't - I would need to have the info to proceed.

These 'planning issues': look it up on the LA's Planning Portal and find out what it's all about. If it's a requirement to add greenery, then simply factor in if you'd be happy to do this if you NEED to. So that isn't, to me, an issue. If I didn't want greenery there, I'd delay doing it after purchase and see if they enforce it. Or. I'd chuck in a couple of token shrubs to hopefully keep the planners happy. But, of course, I'd be fully prepared to do what is required if it's insisted upon. (Plant baby shrubs - £50, and years to grow...) So, provided you are happy that this is the only 'planning' issue, then - as long as you are happy with them - put that bit aside. Keep things as simple as possible!

Drains: ask the vendor for a copy, and/or ask your folks what they survey team said. (And then give them a good telling-off for going round...). If the vendor doesn't give you an actual copy - if he tries to just say "Now't bad to see here, pal", then you obviously treat that with the contempt it deserves. You tell your solicitor that not giving you a copy, or allowing you to have your own survey, means you do not know what condition the drains are in, so you will need to factor in the cost of the worst-case scenario. That's it - matter-of-fact, and unemotive.

Roof: Can you tell us what your concerns are? Any chance of a photo of the outside? How old is the property? Again, you tell your solicitor that not allowing you to have it surveyed means you need to factor in the worst case scenario. M-o-f, and u-e.

Any other practical issues?

Any further dealings with your EA or solicitor, keep it clear, practical and factual. Treat this potential purchase in an unimpassioned manner. It can be yours - at the right price. And the right price is unlikely to be what this guy expects.

Remember, you are not dealing with a rational person. They will either sell it, or not sell it, or negotiate, or who the hell knows. And you need to be ready to put your revised-if-necessary offer, and just say "We are continuing to look for properties, but our offer remains on the table." And do so.

Do NOT become emotionally attached to this house because it's in your preferred location and close to your folks; other properties WILL come up.

What current offer do you have on the table? £380k? More?! I think what I would do is; reassure myself on the 'planning issues', and then ignore them. Try to ditto the drains, and - if I couldn't (ie, you have no genuine assurance they are fine, and the guy still won't allow you to arrange a survey), then I'd factor in a sum such as £1-2k to cover any eventuality (assuming it's a standard drain or a standard length). Roof - I'd factor in half the cost of a whole roof replacement - say £10-15k?

I'd then contact the EA and tell them; "My offer of £380k remains on the table, whilst I continue to look elsewhere. That offer is, however, conditional on me receiving a copy of the drains report. It's also conditional on me being allowed to have a roof survey carried out. Failing these, my offer would need to be revised to £378k (if no drains survey) and £365k if no roof survey. Please pass that on."

Try and keep it as simple as that. You come up with your own figures, of course. Yes, the guy will blow a fuse - that's his personality. But the answer is in his hands - he either allows these surveys - in which case he can still get £380k (assuming the surveys return good results!), or he doesn't. In which case I am then with 99% of this forum - walk away!

SusieT

As well as all the comments above, the drain survey was not done by you, therefore IF there is a problem that it has not shown, you would have no claim against the survey people as it was done for the current owner. 
If you decide to continue I would reiterate that due to the above, you need any surveys to be arranged by you.
The man sounds like a controlling idiot, thinks by going via mummy and daddy that you will be a good little cactus and do as they tell you.

Sarah1Mitty2

Good little cactus! That`s funny.

Sarah1Mitty2

deannagone said:

I would walk away because of the issues you described.., but also in an environment of rising costs, if a further increase of mortgage interest rate (beyond the rise to 5% with a new property) would cause financial problems and there is no guarantee they won't rise further - I would be looking at lowering my expectations and looking for properties i could afford if mortgage interest rates do go up further.  I suspect they will. 

On top of this, with the property you are currently trying to proceed with, what happens if it needs something major doing - how will you pay for that?  You don't really know what you'd be moving into right now, but have enough evidence to suggest there are problems.

Yes, you definitely need an emergency repair fund.