Problem with DIY light fitting

TuppenceWorth

Hi all..
Hoping for some advice from electrically minded MSE'ers.

I replaced three wall lights which are on the same circuit. For some strange reason, one of these will now not work with LED bulbs. Will only work with the old fashioned filament bulbs. 

In addition, without the filament bulb in place, the other two lights will not work. 

Does it look like I have messed up with the wiring connections? I didn't change wiring, just replaced the fittings. Or could it be a faulty light?

I guess I could swap them around and this should help me to identify the issue..

Hoping someone will have an insight as I'm in the dark (pun intended) 🙂

grumbler

TuppenceWorth said:

In addition, without the filament bulb in place, the other two lights will not work. 

Does it look like I have messed up with the wiring connections?

It does to me.

It's worth posting photos of the wiring/connections.

TuppenceWorth

Thank you grumbler.
I will check the wiring then, will redo it and see what happens..

Bendy_House

Is this supplied by a dimmer switch? If so, what rating is it? Ie - is it suitable for LED lamps?

Bendy_House

TuppenceWorth said:

Thank you grumbler.
I will check the wiring then, will redo it and see what happens..

Yes, to the first, but please don't 'redo' unless you KNOW what it is you are doing. 

Could you post photos of the wiring?

If you fit three FILAMENT bulbs, do they all come on to FULL brightness?

TuppenceWorth

Bendy house, it is not a dimmer switch.

Grumbler, I recall it was fine with three filament bulbs. Will get some pics at weekend if I get the time. 

Thanks both

Section62

Bendy_House said:

If you fit three FILAMENT bulbs, do they all come on to FULL brightness?

This^

One scenario could be the lamps have somehow been wired in series - in which case old-style filament lamps may light, but dimmer than they should be, but LED's may not get the voltage they need to function at all.

As there is no dimmer switch involved it really needs a professional electrician to investigate what is going on. The fault could be a serious one and potentially have a fatal outcome.

TuppenceWorth

Thanks all.
I will  need to get more filament bulbs to answer the question about brightness.

Another observation after I switched bulbs around:
It's actually a series of four lights. It will work as long as any of the four lights has a non-LED bulb. Will not work at all if any bulb is missing.

With four LED's it comes on at low brightness for about 3 seconds before flashing haphazardly...

Alderbank

TuppenceWorth said:

Thanks all.
I will  need to get more filament bulbs to answer the question about brightness.

Another observation after I switched bulbs around:
It's actually a series of four lights. It will work as long as any of the four lights has a non-LED bulb. Will not work at all if any bulb is missing.

With four LED's it comes on at low brightness for about 3 seconds before flashing haphazardly...

That solves it then. Defo all in series.
Impedance of four LED circuits in series too high for them to get enough current to work properly. Filament bulb has 10% the impedance of LED circuit. Just enough current for LEDs to limp along.

OP, I don't think you need any more filament bulbs. Can you post a picture of the wiring?

TuppenceWorth

Alderbank said:

TuppenceWorth said:

Thanks all.
I will  need to get more filament bulbs to answer the question about brightness.

Another observation after I switched bulbs around:
It's actually a series of four lights. It will work as long as any of the four lights has a non-LED bulb. Will not work at all if any bulb is missing.

With four LED's it comes on at low brightness for about 3 seconds before flashing haphazardly...

That solves it then. Defo all in series.
Impedance of four LED circuits in series too high for them to get enough current to work properly. Filament bulb has 10% the impedance of LED circuit. Just enough current for LEDs to limp along.

OP, I don't think you need any more filament bulbs. Can you post a picture of the wiring?

Thank you..
Ok. So this is the situation..

One LED bulb and three empty sockets = lights up fine.

Two LED bulbs and two empty sockets = haphazard flashing and then off.

Adding one filament bulb anywhere = lights up fine. Even with three LEDs.

I have been asked to provide pic of wiring but now I don't know which circuit to take a picture of, as filament bulb can be anywhere for the circuit to function.. 

GrumpyDil

It definately sounds like these have been wired in series. I'd suggest electrician as it doesn't sound like you are entirely comfortable dealing with this.