Leaking toilet after selling house

jodgestar

Sold a house and within a few days received email stating that toilet was leaking, no issue with toilet before and all good the night before keys were handed over.  Now been told that it's my responsibility to fix it up to the value of £400 as per Scottish standard clauses.  But does a leaking toilet fall under any of the clauses within the standards clauses.  I had asked my conveyor for information on the toilet leak, as no pictures or information other than its leaking was given, but haven't heard back from them.  

TheJP

jodgestar said:

Sold a house and within a few days received email stating that toilet was leaking, no issue with toilet before and all good the night before keys were handed over.  Now been told that it's my responsibility to fix it up to the value of £400 as per Scottish standard clauses.  But does a leaking toilet fall under any of the clauses within the standards clauses.  I had asked my conveyor for information on the toilet leak, as no pictures or information other than its leaking was given, but haven't heard back from them.  

£400 to fix a leaking toilet? Sounds like they are quoting a new toilet. Ask for official estimations, not sure on Scottish legalities but i wouldn't be paying anymore than 35% of costs, if this was England you'd be free of any liability.

user1977

jodgestar said:

Sold a house and within a few days received email stating that toilet was leaking, no issue with toilet before and all good the night before keys were handed over.  Now been told that it's my responsibility to fix it up to the value of £400 as per Scottish standard clauses.  But does a leaking toilet fall under any of the clauses within the standards clauses.

Yes, standard clauses here, clause 4 would apply to it - 

"The Seller undertakes that any systems or appliances of a working nature (including central heating, water, drainage, electric and gas systems) forming part of the Property or included in the Price will be in working order commensurate with age as at the Date of Settlement."

assuming clause 4 was incorporated into the missives without any relevant amendments.

Obviously you can still argue about whether or not it was actually leaking and whether it ought to cost £400...

I would say the majority of such claims go away if you ignore them long enough.

Brie

user1977 said:

"The Seller undertakes that any systems or appliances of a working nature (including central heating, water, drainage, electric and gas systems) forming part of the Property or included in the Price will be in working order commensurate with age as at the Date of Settlement."

Obviously you can still argue about whether or not it was actually leaking and whether it ought to cost £400...

I would say the majority of such claims go away if you ignore them long enough.

So the law says it has to be working at the time of the sale which the OP claims was the case.  So why did it start to leak??  Purchaser could have leaned on the tank and cracked it so it may be the nature of the leak that is crucial.  

At most  I'd ask for a quote from plumbers.

Alderbank

For the benefit of readers not familiar with the way we do things in Scotland: the law recognises that you can't really get a proper hands-on look at things like central heating when you view the property, so you have a few days from the Date of Entry to check whether certain significant items are in fact what you had been led to believe.

Scottish Standard Clauses (clause 4) includes central heating, plumbing, water systems, drains, toilets.

However the Law Society of Scotland's Client Guide for Scottish Standard Clauses says in its notes about clause 4:

The test is “working order” i.e. if the system or appliance works on the Date of Entry (when the keys are obtained), that is sufficient.

Usually the seller is still there on the Date of Entry and will do a final check round that drains, taps, toilets, door locks etc. are all working correctly before leaving.

The onus is very much on the claimant to prove there was a defect at the point of handover. They have 5 days to report but as all was OK the night before and they did not make a claim until several days later and they have shown no evidence I don't see a strong case. 

sheramber

Nobody is saying it will cost £400 

The clause is  to fix it up to the value of £400 as per Scottish standard clauses. 

if the cost is £200 then that is what is paid. 

If something cost £500, only £400 would be paid.

macman

Was the property unoccupied for a few days between owners? if so, and the WC wasn't flushed, it may be that there is a slight leak from the inlet valve which is only apparent after  few days build up and consequent overflow?
If this is the issue, the OP might be unaware. It's trivial to fix it though.

pinkshoes

jodgestar said:

Sold a house and within a few days received email stating that toilet was leaking, no issue with toilet before and all good the night before keys were handed over.  Now been told that it's my responsibility to fix it up to the value of £400 as per Scottish standard clauses.  But does a leaking toilet fall under any of the clauses within the standards clauses.  I had asked my conveyor for information on the toilet leak, as no pictures or information other than its leaking was given, but haven't heard back from them.  

In the "standard clauses" it states:

4 CENTRAL HEATING, SYSTEMS AND APPLIANCES

4.1 The Seller undertakes that any systems or appliances of a working nature (including central heating, water, drainage, electric and gas systems) forming part of the Property or included in the Price will be in working order commensurate with age as at the Date of Settlement.

4 4.2 The Seller will make good any defect which prevents any such system or appliance being in such order provided said defect is intimated in writing within 5 working days of settlement. Failing such intimation, the Purchaser will be deemed to be satisfied as to the position.

4.3 The Seller will only be responsible for carrying out any necessary repairs to put any such system or appliance into such order and shall have no liability for any element of upgrading (except to the extent such upgrading is required to put any such system or appliance into such order).

4.4 The lack of any regular service or maintenance of any system or appliance or the fact that it may no longer comply with current installation regulations will not, of itself, be deemed to be a defect.

4.5 The Purchaser will be entitled to execute any necessary repairs at the expense of the Seller without reference to the Seller (i) in the event of an emergency; (ii) in the event that the Seller’s agents do not inspect the alleged defects within 5 working days of intimation; or (iii) in the event that any necessary repairs are not carried out within 5 working days of inspection.

How old was the toilet?!?! Why did it take them so many days to report the toilet leaking? (fair enough if you sold a mansion with several bathrooms, but if it was a smaller property with only 1 or 2 toilets, then people usually notice these things straight away.

If it was an older toilet, then I would perhaps pay them the installation cost of a new toilet as a gesture of good will, or stick to the fact that the toilet was working on the day the property was handed over, and as it has take several days to report then it is likely the purchasers have broken it.

NameUnavailable

Are they sure it's leaking?

True story - an office I worked at suddenly had a problem with a leaking toilet, lots of 'water' around the base of the loo. This was mopped up several times until it was noticed that the water was smelly and yellow. We also realised it happened after one particular individual used the toilet.

Basically he couldn't aim properly and one of my colleagues had the delicate task of telling him about it! He clearly didn't make the link between leaking toilet and his visits (or he did but was too embarrassed).

[Deleted User]

I'd be pointing out that you were not aware of any leak (which is true) and that they need to do a lot more to explain the precise nature of the leak, presumably with photos.

There are a number of toilet related 'leaks' which are essentially a DIY task. At what point does it become reasonable to call something a repair requiring the callout of a tradesman. Tightening a fitting? Changing a washer?