Post-lockdown working from home

SadieO

Roodle47 said:

I don't expect the cost of this to be covered fully but it's a substantial cost that we didn't think we'd have to plan for at this point in time. 

(Bolding mine) I don't mean to sound horrible but you don't really have to, do you? It would just be nice. You say his current work space is "not ideal" but that doesn't mean working there is literally not possible. During lockdown some of my colleagues were working from their bedrooms in shared houses, or in studio flats in which their entire living space had to become their office as well as their bedroom and living room etc, now that is really not ideal! As others have said, the key is whether there is an office he could return to if he wished, or if his empoyers are insisting he works solely from home from now on. 

Regarding DSE equipment, I believe (could be wrong) that empoyers have the same responsibility to you that they do in the office, to ensure you are working safely. In practice of course this is not happening everywhere. I do wonder if in a few years there will be cases of people developing RSI, back problems etc due to working unsafely at home, and if they will then start blaming employers for not providing them with the proper equipment..? Could be a minefield. 

gingercordial

Roodle47 said:

user1977 said:

Roodle47 said:

@user1977 I agree...I guess I'm also interested to know if anyone has been in a similar position where their employer has supported this. 

Mine has supplied (or lent) IT kit and some furniture, but I haven't heard of any employers going further than that. How much "conversion" of living space is actually needed?

Well, the only space that we could make into a functioning office is the garage. It's still very much a garage so we're going to have to fully convert it, i.e. insulate, plaster, fit a window, sort electrics. And then of course fitting it out with a workspace. I don't expect the cost of this to be covered fully but it's a substantial cost that we didn't think we'd have to plan for at this point in time. 

I think most employers would shy away from paying for a garage conversion, on the basis that it's a permanent upgrade to your home but your husband could resign soon afterwards.  It would probably also be a taxable benefit in kind.

I don't think you've said whether his previous office has completely shut permanently?  Or is there an office space/hot desk available if he really wanted to use it?

If they have completely closed their only office and have no working space available, perhaps the thing to do if you want him out of the kitchen would be to approach the employer to ask if they'd allow him to expense renting a desk in a co-working space, even if only a couple of days a week to get him out of the house.  That might go down better.

If they haven't completely closed the office, the danger of course is they tell him that if he can't work from home adequately any more, he should come back into the office full time, or likewise to an office in a less convenient town.

(For the record, I got a monitor out of my employer, nothing else, so I sympathise.)

Alderbank

His employer is responsible for his health and safety while he is at work, wherever that happens to be.

Employer must carry out risk assessment (no exemptions from that) and put appropriate control measures in place. Remember that the employer can decide as a result of the risk assessment that he has to work from the office.

In general work equipment has to be provided by employer whether for the office or for home, but if he has a disability and needs special equipment to work safely (this is often a special chair for someone with mobility issues) his employer might be able to claim part or all of the cost from Access to Work.

I would suggest he speaks to his employer about paying for equipment to work from home and negotiate a pay rise as you'll be worse off heating the house all day.

Good luck with that! Firstly it should be an expenses claim rather than a pay rise. Also it is far from universal that employees' homes are unheated during the day. Housewives do still exist and many homes contain small children or elderly relatives.

tooldle

How much space does he need? After a large desk followed by a small desk, I've moved to a 1960's bureau. It takes up very little space and i can close everything away when i finish for the day. Zoom phone means no clunky handset so all i have is my laptop and an additional screen to use as needed (additional screen sits on top of the bureau). I've a spare keyboard which i use if typing a lot, an office chair and a folding green screen that attaches to the back of my chair. A complete fold away office. I'm in the bedroom and my OH has the same set up in the lounge.

Shaztastic3000

Just let the poor bloke go to the office

Roodle47

@SadieO In our opinion, we do have to plan for it now. Using half of the downstairs of our home as an office space is not practical and is effecting the household. We have a toddler...expecting a 2 year old to understand that he can't interrupt or go in that room during the day is unfair and impractical. It's our family home, not a permanent office. I agree that there will be lots of cases where employers aren't looking after their staff properly and it's going to come back to bite them one day. 

@gingercordial thanks for your reply and your helpful suggestion of renting a desk - that hadn't crossed my mind. The company does still have a small office space that is fully utilised by employees they need in the office. So technically they've not closed it altogether (yet!) but as far as I understand it, the small office they have is at full capacity. 

user1977

Roodle47 said:

user1977 said:

Roodle47 said:

@user1977 I agree...I guess I'm also interested to know if anyone has been in a similar position where their employer has supported this. 

Mine has supplied (or lent) IT kit and some furniture, but I haven't heard of any employers going further than that. How much "conversion" of living space is actually needed?

Well, the only space that we could make into a functioning office is the garage. It's still very much a garage so we're going to have to fully convert it, i.e. insulate, plaster, fit a window, sort electrics. And then of course fitting it out with a workspace. I don't expect the cost of this to be covered fully but it's a substantial cost that we didn't think we'd have to plan for at this point in time. 

Do you need a "functioning office", as opposed to a desk in a corner of another room?

If you didn't have a garage to convert, would you expect help to move to a larger house?

gingercordial

pinkteapot said:

As an aside, I can't work out how employers are getting round their DSE (display screen equipment) responsibilities with people working from home. In the office you had to have a desk and chair set up that gave you correct posture, but at home you can slumped on a sofa for 8 hours? Crazy!

It is tricky isn't it!  My employer has made us all fill out a form to self-assess our working spaces, so we have all ticked boxes for things like "yes I have an adjustable chair".  But nobody has physically checked to confirm that's true or done the setting up for the correct height and posture.  Also if the answer was no, nothing has really been done about it as desks and chairs are not being funded...  But our offices are open again now so the thinking is presumably that if we can't get ourselves properly set up at home we should come back in, and the forms demonstrate they did ask.

On the other hand it's difficult to make people make changes to their home furniture if they don't want to.  When the pandemic started I lived in a small flat and worked at a little garden table brought into the lounge (and in buying a house during it, I therefore change my priorities to include a box room, but couldn't ask my employer to fund the higher mortgage payments...).  I was using a small dining chair but wouldn't have wanted a massive office chair in my lounge taking up space and completely at odds with the decor, so I would not have liked my employer insisting on it.  Similarly one of the younger (former) members of our team still lived at home with her mum and sisters in a small council flat, and just used to work on her laptop on the sofa - we offered over and over to at least send her a monitor and keyboard but she refused as she said she had no room and was comfortable and fine.  At 21 she probably was - I did warn her it would be saving up trouble for when she's my age!   

p00hsticks

pinkteapot said:

As an aside, I can't work out how employers are getting round their DSE (display screen equipment) responsibilities with people working from home. In the office you had to have a desk and chair set up that gave you correct posture, but at home you can slumped on a sofa for 8 hours? Crazy!

I was contracted to work from home for a government department prior to the pandemic. The adjustable monitor, laptop and docking station was supplied by the employer, having undergone the relevant electrical safety checks. I already had a suitable desk and chair but had to provide photos of me sat at the desk and confirm that the chair fulfilled all the relevant requirements (height and back adjustable). I also had to agree that someone could come to inspect the area at any point, and to ensure that I hada lockable filing cabinet that I had to store all paperwork and the laptop away in overnight.

I was lucky in that we had an alcove area in our living room that just fitted the desk chair and filing cabinet and so gave me a separate work space that I didn;t have to pack away every night. I accept that for some people it's difficult and a completely separate office room is the ideal, but you donlt actually need that much space for jsut oridinary office work.

Try to see if your emplyer will pay for something like this

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9480281?clickPR=plp:8:81

A split level desk is good to ensure that the monitor is at eye level. If you are using a laptop all day then as pinkteapot says in order to meet their DSE requirements you should be asking your employer to provide you with a docking station and separate ergonomic keyboard, and monitor. (The laptop sits on the docking station which is connnected to the keyboard and monitor and enables the correct posture).

A good emplyer woudl either be providing you with this for use at home, reimbursing you for the cost  or telling you to get back in the office where they'll provide it for you.

SensibleSarah

My previous employer, when we were first mandated to work from home at the beginning of pandemic, made us all take photos of our desk/working setups and fill out workstation assessments. We were provided with work laptops (with separate mouse and keyboard, plus an additional monitor if wanted) and they offered desk chairs from the office if needed. 
I never worked using the setup I photgraphed as it happened, but they'd done their duty I suppose. I don't have room for a permanent desk setup in my current home. Now I'm self-employed then it's obviously only on me.