Our process of applying for probate

DealingWithEstate

I have found the help and advice on this board so useful that I thought it might be helpful to others to layout the process of applying for probate that my family have recently been involved in, plus some dates to show how it worked out for us.
Hope this helps someone. 

Background - my mother died in April 2022 in England, with a very straightforward will and estate. She was divorced, and had a house and some savings which took her a little over the inheritance tax boundary. She had 3 executors, who were also the beneficiaries.

Step 1a - Value assets. Draw up list of all assets and any debts. Inform banks etc of death. Accounts will be frozen. Ask each bank for "date of death" balance and inform them of change of address for post. Get estate agents to value property.

Step 1b - Apply for the IHT Reference number (you need this on your IHT forms, so need to send off for it at least 3 weeks before sending off IHT form) - use Schedule IHT422.

•       Sent off 28/4/22; received 20/5/22 [3 weeks]
  

Step 2 - Fill in Inheritance tax forms and pay IHT - IHT 400 and associated Schedules. These are paper forms (as of July 2022). You need to fill in about half of IHT400, then the additional Schedules, then the rest of IHT400. Once IHT400 is complete you will also need to fill in IHT421 (the Summary form) and I also had to do IHT435 (the Residence Nill Rate Band claim form). You will also need various attachments (eg estate agent valuations of property, copy of the will, etc, and I sent a covering letter detailing what I enclosed). There is a helpline (0300 123 1072) which generally was excellent (although on one occasion their advice was incorrect).

• Sent off 10/6/22
  
• I then received IHT301 and IHT302 on 18/6/22  [1 week - this is exceptionally fast, I think we were lucky]. These told me what IHT I had to pay (I opted to pay in instalments, because we had to sell the house first.)
  
• I paid IHT online on 18/6/22
• IHT421 (the *stamped* Summary form) was sent by IHT to the Probate office.
  

Step 3 - Apply for Grant of Probate. This can be done online (and note that the online form asks slightly different questions compared to the paper one). The Probate office says you should only apply 20 working days after having sent your IHT forms to HMRC. After you submit it you are told what you need to send them by post (the original will etc) and given a Probate Reference number. And you have to pay for it (£280). 

• The Probate people have a "target" of dealing with cases within 8 weeks and you cannot follow up with the Probate Office until at least 8 weeks from the time of application. There is a helpline Probate info line: 0300303 0648 and a webchat facility (https://www.apply-for-probate.service.gov.uk/avaya-webchat). I used the webchat facility to check my documents had arrived, as was concerned when I hadn't heard anything. I found both excellent.
• Applied online 26/6/22; and sent off attachments on 27/6/22
• Received email confirming probate granted on 25/7/22 [4 weeks], and hard copy arrived in post about 3 days later. [Again, this seems to be fast compared to others - maybe we were lucky]

Step 4 - Collect the assets. Many bank accounts will transfer balances of a few thousand without grant of probate, so we had begun this process earlier. Larger sums need the probate granted, and of course if you are selling a house. We were advised by our estate agent to only market the house once we had *applied* for probate. We had everything ready to go, so that once grant of probate came through it could be marketed. I initially thought we'd set up an Executor account to collect the assets, but most banks do not have them anymore, and I couldn't see the point. Other beneficiaries trusted me, so we used a dormant bank account of mine as the account for anything related to her Estate.

Step 5 - Prepare final estate accounts - STILL TO DO

Step 6 - Report estate to HMRC - STILL TO DO

Step 7 - Pay out - STILL TO DO

Pennylane

I am sure some people will find that really helpful so thanks for sharing.

 It is great when everything runs smoothly but if somebody places a caveat on your application for Probate then everything stops dead and it may be many years and thousands of pounds in legal  fees before you can move on.  I know someone who is currently 4 years down the line with £15k legal fees so far.  

waveyjane

Thanks @DealingWithEstate - I'm just starting out on all this. 

For the sake of reducing confusion though - can you clarify (in your post, preferably) that it seems your mother did not have a surviving married/civil partner, but did have a will?

I ask because so many things I read online about the subject of estates and probate, etc. don't make it clear what the overall context is. What happens in the case of a "second death" (where there is no spouse/right of survivorship) is very different from a "first death" where their spouse inherits automatically (with or without probate along the way).

For example, to say "Accounts will be frozen" is simply wrong - and potentially very alarming - in the case of joint accounts! And IHT is irrelevant, to name just two things from your post.

Not knocking your information at all though - just that it needs some context. 

Edit: just seen this is from Sept last year, sorry!

stardust23

Excellent post, thank you so much.

Some questions that have been on my mind before I send off my forms next week :- 

1. Did you staple the individual forms, or use a paper clip, or leave them loose?
2. Did you put all of the attachments at the end of all of the forms? Or at the end of the relevant form?
3. Form IHT421 - Regarding your mother, did you enter domiciled as "England" or "England and Wales"?
4. Form IHT405 Box 12 - Regarding your mother's house, did you enter "will be sold later" or "on the market now"? And what are the implications of either?

Sarahspangles

If you post documents when you could have submitted them online then your application for probate will take significantly longer - possibly two or three months longer.  Paper documents will be scanned in so paper clips or treasury tags might be easier for the admin staff at the other end.

The Will always has to be posted - don’t add or remove staples or paper clips, or detach or attach anything to it.  Anything that can make it appear the Will may have been tampered with can delay the application.

Mothman

I know this is an old thread but any new readers should note that the probate office have now increased the average timescale from 8 weeks to 16 weeks with some posters on this board saying they have been waiting a great deal longer than that.

oglop

i'm way over double that...

handful

We've just received grant of probate in about 4 weeks, applied for professionally and online. I was very pleasantly surprised. The date of the grant of probate letter was actually created about 2 weeks after application. Just to hopefully provide some hope to those in a similar situation!

HUMBUG

My experience is that the Grant of Probate service is unprofessional, poor and unacceptably slow.  

1. Spent a great deal of time and effort completing the plethora of IHT forms for my deceased father  Sept 23.
2. Sent all the forms by tracked delivery via Royal Mail to their West Midlands office in Oct 23
3. Royal Mail couldn't confirm they had delivered the documents to IHT office even though I paid for tracking/signature service.
4. Contacted IHT office and they couldn't confirm receipt because of the number of applications they receive on a daily basis. 
5. A few weeks later received a reply from IHT office returning my mother's sealed 'Grant Of Probate'  that I had attached with a copy of her 'Will'  on form IHT 402 . This form asked whether the spouse of the deceased had died before the other, asking various questions and copy of the 'Will' and 'Grant Of Probate'.   
The reply said they had taken a copy of the 'Grant of Probate' and sent to the relevant team/person  to deal with.

So the above confirms that they did indeed receive all my IHT forms .

6. Waited 5  weeks before applying for Grant of Probate in early Dec 23 and posted the cover sheet with my fathers original 'Will' by tracked and signed postage via Royal Mail.  This time it was delivered and signed receipt.
7. Then on the 7th Feb 24 , I get an email from probate office, saying the following:

----------------------------
Thank you for your application. In order for us to progress your application further, please confirm the following information by replying by email to contactprobate@justice.gov.uk:

1) The Sole executor in the will, (xxxx xxxxx xxxxxx  - my mothers name) has not been accounted for in your application.

Please confirm whether she has either:

i) Died in the lifetime of the deceased.

ii) Died after the deceased ? Date of death:

iii) She is appointing an attorney to act on her behalf (We would require a PA12 form).

iv) She is renouncing her right to act as an executor (We would require a PA15 form signed by her).

v) She lacks mental capacity to act as an executor (We would require a PA14 medical certificate signed by a registered medical professional).

Please include the below Statement of Truth in your reply.

“The information I have provided in this email (or letter) is correct to the best of my knowledge and understand that it will be stored as a public record.

I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against the undersigned if it is found that the evidence provided is deliberately untruthful or dishonest, as well as revocation of the grant.”
----------------------------

8. I replied back by email the same day but queried why they had sent this email because of point 5  above. I had previously sent them my mothers death details in form IHT402 ,  a sealed original 'Grant Of Probate' , a copy of her 'Will'.  They had confirmed receipt because they had made a copy of the 'Grant Of Probate' and returned it back to me saying that they had sent the forms to the relevant team/person.

9. I checked the status of my application yesterday online and it's categorised as 'SENT'  , that more information is required by me and to check my emails .  This obviously relates to the email they sent to me as per point 7  above on the 7th Feb 24.  
I can only assume that they still haven't processed my reply on the same day. 

10. Tried ringing them today on 0300 303 0648  and just received a very long automated message about the process to check status of probate application . I was expecting an option to speak to someone but all it said was "if you wish to hear this message again press 1  or hang up" . I waited and it just disconnected me , therefore I am assuming they do not accept phone calls.

11.  I have now emailed their CEO Mr Nick Goodwin and made a formal complaint. Provided him all the details as per above and a scanned copy of their reply as per point 5. 

I will provide an update if and when I get a response from whoever is the manager of the probate team responsible for processing 'Grant Of Probate' applications.

So far, I'm sorry to say, their internal processes seem to be partially broken and causing very long delays.  It looks like I am one of the unlucky ones where one of their links in their process chain has failed.