Used car death trap please help

Madmaria69

Hi I hope someone can advise me on this. My daughter bought a car from a car dealer who was a aware she had a baby and a 3 year old she would be taking around in it. When she picked it up it started to make a knocking noise on the motorway and the passrnger seatbelt wouldnt work. So she took it back and the guy said his garage would look at it. She collected it two days later as she was going on holiday and found the seat belt still not working the knocking getting worse then the drive train light came on and it went into idle mode. She took it back to the garage and the guy said the warranty I gave you for 3 months is for mechanical breakdown but this is just wear and tear so I am not doing anything about it. She was devastated she had it for 6 weeks and paid this man 3.5k that she had to borrow. Yesterday she took her son to nursery and the car stated throwing out huge clouds of back smoke and only just managed to get it home. A neighbour came round who works for the RAC and he said it was bad and probably needed a new engine . I just can not believe the guy who sold it to her took her money and wouldn't even fix the things that were obviously wrong with it when he sold it to her. He put my daughters and grandsons lives at risk and couldn't care less now 3 months on she has no money and no car and the guy says we can't do anything about it cause its wear and tear and the court would do nothing. Surely this can't be right? Any advice would be welcome thankyou

Ectophile

Is it right?  No.

Does it happen a lot? Yes.  There are endless backstreet car dealers who will buy cheap cars at auction and sell them on to unsuspecting customers with worthless warranties.

The correct legal response is to hand the car back, with the keys, and then sue for the money your daughter has lost.  But the odds of getting back that money are very slim, and then your daughter will have no car and no money.

You said "borrow" in your post.  Was that a credit agreement with a car finance company?  If so, that's the only option that could work.  Go to the finance company and ask for a full refund.  But if the money was borrowed from somewhere else, forget it.

Alderbank

Mad Maria, you haven’t told us why the car is a death trap? This is a very emotive thing to say. 

Faulty brakes, faulty steering, loose wheel nuts, worn tyres, absolutely.

But broken passenger seat belt - no. Until it is fixed the driver just needs to prevent anyone travelling in that seat.

We often have small family members travel in our cars. But invariably in their own carrier or car seat fixed in the back seat. That is the safest (and I believe the only) place for kids to travel.

The car makes black smoke with loss of power and engine knocking. The dealer says wear and tear. A neighbour who works for the RAC says ‘bad and probably needed a new engine’.

The RAC’s own site says from their experience the 5 commonest reasons for black engine smoke are faulty fuel injector, damaged fuel pressure regulator, dysfunctional carburettor, blocked inlet manifold and ignition timing.  Any or all, says the RAC, can be the result of wear and tear so the garage might possibly be at least partly right. Similarly for the causes of engine knocking.

Your daughter should get the car examined by a competent garage (not the neighbour who works for the RAC) including a proper safety check. Perhaps you can help her to do that? It may not need a new engine but it could well have other safety faults.  Armed with that independent report she should go back to the dealer.

We can give you more help if you tell us the make and model of the car and its mileage and year, also what service history she has and how she paid for the car. Did she test drive it?

MalMonroe

Hi, first of all, no car should pass any MOT if any seatbelts do not work properly. If that car has an MOT then the MOT station that issued it needs reporting. The car dealer who sold your daughter the 'deathtrap' also needs reporting. 

Secondly, there is some very useful information in the following link -

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights-aAnMC5b0ZzJb

Your daughter does have rights. And if there's something wrong with the car then she has every right to return it for a refund. 

This is what this MSE site says -

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

And citizens advice - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/

It's always best to do lots of research when buying any car and also not to rush things when you do buy a car. If your daughter was going on holiday then it might have been a good idea for her to buy a car well in advance. Buying a car last minute is asking for trouble, especially as a dodgy dealer will only be wanting the money and won't care about anybody's safety. I've learned these things the extremely hard way, I was a single parent who had only myself to rely on. When it comes to car buying, some unscrupulous dealers will treat women like dirt.

There are ways and means to check a car before any money exchanges hands - I use the UK government site advice. You can check a car's MOT history to find out if it's safe and you can get some good information - for example, if the car has any recall notices.

https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla

A few years ago I bought a car that turned out to be a pile of junk from my local garage mechanic (he swore it was a great bargain and I believed him) and although it was only £700 I took it back to him and said I wanted a full refund because the car was useless. He didn't agree and I ended up going to my credit card company to start a Section 75 claim and although it took a while, I ended up with a full refund and £200 compensation for all the hassle and bother as well as a £50 bouquet from my credit card company (they'd been pretty useless too).

Your daughter could also do worse than contact the Motor ombudsman, link below -

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/

Don't let the dealer put your daughter off taking him to court, either, if it does come to that. The damage to that car is obviously not wear and tear and even if it was, it isn't your daughter's wear and tear. Nobody expects a used car to act like a new car but they do have a right to expect it to be safe and roadworthy.

I feel really sorry for your daughter but she doesn't have to let that car dealer think he's got away with it (where is the car now, by the way?)

macman

Agree, the MOT at the time of purchase could have been nearly a year old.
Some context here would help: make/model/year /mileage?
OP, you've (mostly) been given some good advice. Your daughter's main rights are those under CRA 2015, so I suggest you do some research on that: there are articles on the main MSE site to help you. Up to 6m, any faults are presumed to be present at the time of purchase, but you will need an independent report. Not Halfords or Kwikfit, please. If no joy from the dealer, then you proceed to an LBA and the small claims process.

mattyprice4004

MalMonroe said:

Hi, first of all, no car should pass any MOT if any seatbelts do not work properly. If that car has an MOT then the MOT station that issued it needs reporting. The car dealer who sold your daughter the 'deathtrap' also needs reporting. 

Secondly, there is some very useful information in the following link -

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights-aAnMC5b0ZzJb

Your daughter does have rights. And if there's something wrong with the car then she has every right to return it for a refund. 

This is what this MSE site says -

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

And citizens advice - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/

It's always best to do lots of research when buying any car and also not to rush things when you do buy a car. If your daughter was going on holiday then it might have been a good idea for her to buy a car well in advance. Buying a car last minute is asking for trouble, especially as a dodgy dealer will only be wanting the money and won't care about anybody's safety. I've learned these things the extremely hard way, I was a single parent who had only myself to rely on. When it comes to car buying, some unscrupulous dealers will treat women like dirt.

There are ways and means to check a car before any money exchanges hands - I use the UK government site advice. You can check a car's MOT history to find out if it's safe and you can get some good information - for example, if the car has any recall notices.

https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla

A few years ago I bought a car that turned out to be a pile of junk from my local garage mechanic (he swore it was a great bargain and I believed him) and although it was only £700 I took it back to him and said I wanted a full refund because the car was useless. He didn't agree and I ended up going to my credit card company to start a Section 75 claim and although it took a while, I ended up with a full refund and £200 compensation for all the hassle and bother as well as a £50 bouquet from my credit card company (they'd been pretty useless too).

Your daughter could also do worse than contact the Motor ombudsman, link below -

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/

Don't let the dealer put your daughter off taking him to court, either, if it does come to that. The damage to that car is obviously not wear and tear and even if it was, it isn't your daughter's wear and tear. Nobody expects a used car to act like a new car but they do have a right to expect it to be safe and roadworthy.

I feel really sorry for your daughter but she doesn't have to let that car dealer think he's got away with it (where is the car now, by the way?)

Another post littered with inaccuracy. If you don't know the subject at hand, please don't post as you're helping no one. 
The MOT is not a guarantee the car will be fine for 12 months - it's only a picture of the car on the day it was presented. 
You don't know the seatbelt didn't fail shortly after, or at any point in the next 12 months (as we have no clue how long the MOT is on this car). 

RogerBareford

Madmaria69 said:

Hi I hope someone can advise me on this. My daughter bought a car from a car dealer who was a aware she had a baby and a 3 year old she would be taking around in it. When she picked it up it started to make a knocking noise on the motorway and the passrnger seatbelt wouldnt work. So she took it back and the guy said his garage would look at it. She collected it two days later as she was going on holiday and found the seat belt still not working the knocking getting worse then the drive train light came on and it went into idle mode. She took it back to the garage and the guy said the warranty I gave you for 3 months is for mechanical breakdown but this is just wear and tear so I am not doing anything about it. She was devastated she had it for 6 weeks and paid this man 3.5k that she had to borrow. Yesterday she took her son to nursery and the car stated throwing out huge clouds of back smoke and only just managed to get it home. A neighbour came round who works for the RAC and he said it was bad and probably needed a new engine . I just can not believe the guy who sold it to her took her money and wouldn't even fix the things that were obviously wrong with it when he sold it to her. He put my daughters and grandsons lives at risk and couldn't care less now 3 months on she has no money and no car and the guy says we can't do anything about it cause its wear and tear and the court would do nothing. Surely this can't be right? Any advice would be welcome thankyou

My advice to you would be to stick to the facts and not exagerate when dealing with this.

Why does it make and difference the dealer was aware she had a baby and a 3 year old? Are you suggesting it's fine for dodgy vehicles to be sold to people without young children???

The car has a fault with the seat belt, makes a knocking noise and smokes. How does that make it a "death trap" and how did he put your "daughters and grandsons lives at risk"? Neither of those faults are dangerous unless someone is stupid enough to use the front seat without a working seat belt.

soolin

MalMonroe said:

Hi, first of all, no car should pass any MOT if any seatbelts do not work properly. If that car has an MOT then the MOT station that issued it needs reporting. The car dealer who sold your daughter the 'deathtrap' also needs reporting. 

Secondly, there is some very useful information in the following link -

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights-aAnMC5b0ZzJb

Your daughter does have rights. And if there's something wrong with the car then she has every right to return it for a refund. 

This is what this MSE site says -

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/

And citizens advice - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/

It's always best to do lots of research when buying any car and also not to rush things when you do buy a car. If your daughter was going on holiday then it might have been a good idea for her to buy a car well in advance. Buying a car last minute is asking for trouble, especially as a dodgy dealer will only be wanting the money and won't care about anybody's safety. I've learned these things the extremely hard way, I was a single parent who had only myself to rely on. When it comes to car buying, some unscrupulous dealers will treat women like dirt.

There are ways and means to check a car before any money exchanges hands - I use the UK government site advice. You can check a car's MOT history to find out if it's safe and you can get some good information - for example, if the car has any recall notices.

https://www.gov.uk/get-vehicle-information-from-dvla

A few years ago I bought a car that turned out to be a pile of junk from my local garage mechanic (he swore it was a great bargain and I believed him) and although it was only £700 I took it back to him and said I wanted a full refund because the car was useless. He didn't agree and I ended up going to my credit card company to start a Section 75 claim and although it took a while, I ended up with a full refund and £200 compensation for all the hassle and bother as well as a £50 bouquet from my credit card company (they'd been pretty useless too).

Your daughter could also do worse than contact the Motor ombudsman, link below -

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/

Don't let the dealer put your daughter off taking him to court, either, if it does come to that. The damage to that car is obviously not wear and tear and even if it was, it isn't your daughter's wear and tear. Nobody expects a used car to act like a new car but they do have a right to expect it to be safe and roadworthy.

I feel really sorry for your daughter but she doesn't have to let that car dealer think he's got away with it (where is the car now, by the way?)

Please be careful when trying to be helpful, your advice can often be very poor. For instance, your very first bit about the MOT , if you have a car and have ever had an MOT then you should know how it works. It is tested as the point of the MOT and either passes or fails. However the MOT cannot possibly anticipate what happens once it leaves the test centre , are you seriously suggesting that if a car passes the MOT but suffers from a terrible driver, or gets vandalised or damaged 3 months later the MOT was somehow at fault and needs reporting for not having a crystal ball to know what was going to happen? 

We also have a car where the seatbelt in the back passenger seat failed once, the car wasn’t young, probably about 6-7 years old at the time and the inertia bit just failed. The car didn’t suddenly become a death trap though, we made sure we didn’t use that seat, we booked it in to a mechanic who ordered a small new part and refitted a seat belt.  I’m sure it’s very rare that this happens but we didn’t go a weeping and a wailing about the car suddenly being a death trap - and yes we had young children. 

born_again

So just what remedial action had your daughter after taking car back to dealer in terms of knocking & seatbelt. Between the last trip to dealer & the engine going in to idle mode? How long between would help as well.

Forwandert

RogerBareford said:

Madmaria69 said:

Hi I hope someone can advise me on this. My daughter bought a car from a car dealer who was a aware she had a baby and a 3 year old she would be taking around in it. When she picked it up it started to make a knocking noise on the motorway and the passrnger seatbelt wouldnt work. So she took it back and the guy said his garage would look at it. She collected it two days later as she was going on holiday and found the seat belt still not working the knocking getting worse then the drive train light came on and it went into idle mode. She took it back to the garage and the guy said the warranty I gave you for 3 months is for mechanical breakdown but this is just wear and tear so I am not doing anything about it. She was devastated she had it for 6 weeks and paid this man 3.5k that she had to borrow. Yesterday she took her son to nursery and the car stated throwing out huge clouds of back smoke and only just managed to get it home. A neighbour came round who works for the RAC and he said it was bad and probably needed a new engine . I just can not believe the guy who sold it to her took her money and wouldn't even fix the things that were obviously wrong with it when he sold it to her. He put my daughters and grandsons lives at risk and couldn't care less now 3 months on she has no money and no car and the guy says we can't do anything about it cause its wear and tear and the court would do nothing. Surely this can't be right? Any advice would be welcome thankyou

My advice to you would be to stick to the facts and not exagerate when dealing with this.

Why does it make and difference the dealer was aware she had a baby and a 3 year old? Are you suggesting it's fine for dodgy vehicles to be sold to people without young children???

The car has a fault with the seat belt, makes a knocking noise and smokes. How does that make it a "death trap" and how did he put your "daughters and grandsons lives at risk"? Neither of those faults are dangerous unless someone is stupid enough to use the front seat without a working seat belt.

I'd be more inclined to say the person still driving it after highlighting the issues to the dealer and then still driving it to the point of a cloud block smoke is the person putting the children at risk if there is one.