Gov't support

indebt80

There are a lot of people.which have high sugar due to disabilities and illness and yes they need targeting as well as those that legitimately are heat or eat (but again education on how not to waste energy should be a part of any handouts)

I agree that we can't keep getting handouts.  But disagree that people with high sugar should be targeted as well as those who legitimately are heat or eat.  This is a callous view.  We are all human beings after all, with many faults, even if the pious think it doesn't apply to them.  The cost of living and energy crisis is making every one think about food and energy in a way they didn't think about it before.

Yes, people should be educated not to eat the wrong food and not to waste energy, but it is a difficult and challenging thing to change a mindset, but not impossible. What would be a good thing to do, for starters, is that everyone who can afford the mega price increases comfortably, and I suspect some on this forum can.  For example, the very comfortably off.  And those who have successfully insulated their homes and have underfloor heating and expensive heat pumps.  How about giving some of the "payouts" back so that it can go towards the cost of living arrangements the government are bringing in to help those in dire need.   

In my job I see the suffering of people on low incomes and non existent incomes.  And it is heart wrenching.  So let's all do our own thing in our own way to reduce our energy usage without becoming judgemental.  We are all in this new world together whoever we are, and kindness and understanding goes a long way.

Mstty

indebt80 said:

There are a lot of people.which have high sugar due to disabilities and illness and yes they need targeting as well as those that legitimately are heat or eat (but again education on how not to waste energy should be a part of any handouts)

I agree that we can't keep getting handouts.  But disagree that people with high sugar should be targeted as well as those who legitimately are heat or eat.  This is a callous view.  We are all human beings after all, with many faults, even if the pious think it doesn't apply to them.  The cost of living and energy crisis is making every one think about food and energy in a way they didn't think about it before.

Yes, people should be educated not to eat the wrong food and not to waste energy, but it is a difficult and challenging thing to change a mindset, but not impossible. What would be a good thing to do, for starters, is that everyone who can afford the mega price increases comfortably, and I suspect some on this forum can.  For example, the very comfortably off.  And those who have successfully insulated their homes and have underfloor heating and expensive heat pumps.  How about giving some of the "payouts" back so that it can go towards the cost of living arrangements the government are bringing in to help those in dire need.   

In my job I see the suffering of people on low incomes and non existent incomes.  And it is heart wrenching.  So let's all do our own thing in our own way to reduce our energy usage without becoming judgemental.  We are all in this new world together whoever we are, and kindness and understanding goes a long way.

Lol that was spellcheck it change usage to sugar and a dash of dyslexia.

Corrected high usage not high sugar🤣🤣🤣

Section62

jimjames said:

Mstty said:

I don't want to see any more help to January.

People need a big shock, education on energy and usage and to cut down their usage. Without this shock this will have to be funded for many years and the country is broke already.

It will be fascinating come Christmas time to see how many houses have lights on 24/7 that could light up the moon. When energy is cheap no-one bothers about cutting usage, like you say it needs something to change that mindset like with fuel and people then saying "well I won't drive, I'll walk".

Yes. I also agree with the big shock principle, otherwise with small increases in the cost of energy we'll be in the 'boiling frog' situation.  People in general will only make big changes in their consumption patterns when they see big bills landing in their inboxes.

Similarly the 1970's fuel crises.  It took that shock for people and the industry to get to grips with the idea that moving away from big heavy cars with large inefficient engines was the way forward.  Ok, some people still drive big heavy cars, but using fuel a lot more efficiently than the 1970's equivalents did.

njm123

Shouldn't be giving any direct support.  It's inflationary and just kicks the can down the road.    Also I think it discourages people from doing anything about their energy use.   I also have concerns with targeting based on being in particular groups regardless of need, especially as those groups will be the same ones who get the discretionary help from Energy Companies, Councils and charities - which will ultimately be paid for by everyone else including those that are just managing.

Should be using the money on various schemes to improve energy security.  

- Increasing Generation Capacity
- Setting up a properly funded scheme  to regulate and guarantee work to retrofit buildings .   Effectively to certify training, provide a list of approved contractors and guarantee work at a fair price.   I.e. get the cowboys out.
- Invest in research into alternatives - i.e. Energy Storage, Hydrogen etc

Set up schemes with Govt backed loans to

- Help energy companies hedge supply 
- Retrofit homes, especially for those without access to commercial loans.



 

pochase

I don't think it is really something new. Latest since May when the government help was published as result of a £2800 cap prediction people should be aware of the issue, and with new reports every week of new increased cost predictions you need to put your head into the sand for you not to realise that you need to do something if you know you cannot afford the new prices.

It should be up to the energy user first to make adjustments to their bill and lifestyle and only thereafter the government needs to do something about in dire need.

Let's be honest, the maximum payments some people already receive now is almost £2500 if they get every help possible. That covers even the increase from last years October cap to the new October cap for the average user. So why should they make any effort in saving energy if the full increase is paid for.

I think more along the lines that there should be a government help that gives you the basic needs for energy at a subsidised rate, and I mean basic. I don't think gaming on a high end PC or other hobbies fall under basic needs. I see it more like have a fridge freezer, electricity to cook, light, washing machine and watch TV to keep up to date. If you want more, you have to pay for it. If there is specific energy  need like medical appliances it could come through NHS as an additional entitlement to cheaper energy, or even fully been subsidised, there should not be any difference between a medication or operation I need, and the cost of running a medical appliance at home.

Heating is a bit more complex, as you are dealing with different "fuels", but nobody can expect to be subsidised fully. Again everybody will have to make sacrifices here. I am not talking about not heating at all, but maybe limit it to one room and decrease the temperature.

QrizB

I'd like to see continued targeted support at lower-income households, with income & corporation tax increases to fund it.

If/when energy prices get back to something resembling normal, the changes can be unwound.

[Deleted User]

QrizB said:

I'd like to see continued targeted support at lower-income households, with income & corporation tax increases to fund it.

If/when energy prices get back to something resembling normal, the changes can be unwound.

Give someone help for any more than a one-off and they get used to budgeting including it.  Any removal of the support would then be a massive problem for them - just look at the arguments about the removal of UC uplift. 

Can you see a future politician being the one to say "we will no longer support lower-income households", regardless of the energy prices at the time?

You're also suggesting that if energy prices don't come down to 'normal', then we continue to subsidise indefinitely?  So just to pay some people's energy bills from general taxation forever?  Nice sentiment, but surely there are better ways to approach the problem than that.

MattMattMattUK

What I would like to see and what I think will happen are two different things. It looks like Truss is going to win the Conservative leadership contest so she will be the next PM so basing it on her she will remove the 5% VAT from energy bills and drop the green component, so all in all maybe a saving of 6.5% off of the currently predicted rates. I do not think she will expand the £400 and I think that will be the last of the handouts that everyone gets.

I don't think there will be any additional help beyond that for at least six months as otherwise it will make it clear she was lying during the leadership election. Next year there will be a fairly significant rise to Pensions due to the triple lock, I think there will be a smaller rise to UC but little else. It would not surprise me if she also increases NWL to between £10.20 and 11.50 per hour as that is a relatively easy win for the government that does not cost them directly, but it only hopes those at the bottom of the earnings scale, not those who do not work and not those above them.

I think it is going to be a fairly grim couple of years for everyone at pretty much all income levels, with the forecast recession lasting at least all of next year, inflation running at 15-18% next year and 5-10% in 2024 and energy prices not coming down much before 2025 we are at the start of a depression. However on the plus side every depression leads to longer term economic growth and generally within five years people are better off than they were before. 

MattMattMattUK

pochase said:

I think more along the lines that there should be a government help that gives you the basic needs for energy at a subsidised rate, and I mean basic. I don't think gaming on a high end PC or other hobbies fall under basic needs. I see it more like have a fridge freezer, electricity to cook, light, washing machine and watch TV to keep up to date.

To an extent I agree, possibly something along the standing charge is £2 per day, but includes 5kWh or electricity, but then that is subsidy again which keeps getting messier by the day.

pochase said:

If there is specific energy  need like medical appliances it could come through NHS as an additional entitlement to cheaper energy, or even fully been subsidised, there should not be any difference between a medication or operation I need, and the cost of running a medical appliance at home.

Those costs are generally covered by the NHS, if someone has specific equipment that uses more than a low level of power this is paid for. It generally is not for things like CPAP machines as the running cost is so low (50-80 watts for 8 hours), but for machines that use a lot those are funded, or at least they used to be a few years ago, I know two family members who have had their additional electricity costs paid for. The big issue is heat, some medical conditions or treatments (particularly cancer treatments) means that it is medically dangerous for the patient to get cold, however there are no additional payments to cover that. 

pochase

Looks more like the government believes energy costs for medical needed equipment are covered by the £150 for disabled people.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/610300?reveal_response=yes

if it is not already covered by

The Government understands, however, that some households with a disability or medical condition have higher than average energy costs. NHS England provides electricity refunds for users of certain medical equipment in the home, such as oxygen concentrators. If a patient is prescribed an oxygen concentrator as part of their home oxygen therapy, the provider will reimburse the patient for any electricity the machine uses at the standard rate for the electricity provider in that region.

Regarding cancer it seems that for example MacMillan has grants available to help with heating cost

Grants and loans

Macmillan Grants are small, one-off payments to help people with the extra costs that cancer can cause. They are for people who have a low level of income and savings.

If you need things like extra clothing, help paying heating bills or even a relaxing UK break, you may be able to get a Macmillan Grant.

How much you will get depends on your situation and needs. A grant from Macmillan would not normally affect the benefits you are entitled to. It is an extra bit of help, not a replacement for other support.