Wayleave - extra cables being added?

--Tony--

We have a wayleave for two poles close to the road for power cables, there is a third pole on our drive that does not have a wayleave as it only supplies the house with power.
Airband have asked us to sign a wayleave to give them permission to add a lightweight fibre cable onto these poles via a solicitor. 

The solicitor claims the wayleave is only to add a cable to the pole in our drive for possible future supply and will be free to us. I asked about the poles by the road and they say:

"The poles running alongside the road are to be accessed from the roadside via cherry picker where no wayleave is deemed necessary as access to the title isn’t required. As the poles are already existing and the cable is simply to be attached – no payment would be relevant."

I feel they should be agreeing a wayleave with us to use the power companies poles, where would it end how many cables could end up being fitted in the future?
I certainly don't see how they can use a cherry picker over our property without permission.

I also believe they are using the pole on our drive as an excuse to get a wayleave signed for all three poles by trickery because the contract does not specify which poles it applies to.

It might sound like I'm being awkward but actually it's not about the money (which is tiny) it's about keeping these installations under control, where would it end otherwise, we could end up with everyone and their dog adding cables willy-nilly.

Eldi_Dos

I worry about this trend to promote high capacity broadband to rural areas. At first it seems a no brainer helping rural businesses to compete on a level playing field but I can see it leading to a form of digital "clearances" as people who want to work from home and with high salaries relocate from towns pricing young local people out of the housing market. Beware what you wish for.

OP, your concerns about future cables being installed willy-nilly. These cables are of such high capacity one would usually do a rural situation.I am surprised they have gone ahead without wayleaves in place, can you say if existing wayleave covers transmission of power only or transmission of power and telecomms

--Tony--

Eldi_Dos said:

I worry about this trend to promote high capacity broadband to rural areas. At first it seems a no brainer helping rural businesses to compete on a level playing field but I can see it leading to a form of digital "clearances" as people who want to work from home and with high salaries relocate from towns pricing young local people out of the housing market. Beware what you wish for.

OP, your concerns about future cables being installed willy-nilly. These cables are of such high capacity one would usually do a rural situation.I am surprised they have gone ahead without wayleaves in place, can you say if existing wayleave covers transmission of power only or transmission of power and telecomms

I would have to check the wayleave but I think it is for power only.
It's my mums house and she actually gets 8Meg on her BT line which is better than I had i my town when I had standard broadband. She certainly does not need this high power broadband.
We were more concerned further companies would enter the market and feel they can just stick their cables up too, I know it's unlikely but I still feel its better done through a formal agreement.

pmartin86

I think you're really overthinking this, the Electricity and telecoms networks are run and owned by central entities (like National grid and Openreach, you're not suddenly going to get "bobs broadband" or "Larrys 'leccy" sticking a cable up as they would use the existing infrastructure.

As for the 8mb comment, that is painfully slow by modern standards, and eventually you're going to sell the house, and as someone who's recently moved (less than a year ago) I can categorically say I discounted otherwise suitable houses for having poor internet, having FTTP would be a big tick box for me, and countless others. The "High salaries" bit would also be countered by giving local people the chance to get said high paying jobs, so i really don't see the downside.

Mistral001

If there is a wayleave at present over your property for the two poles on the roadside, they probably do not need permission to do any work regrading these poles whether it is replacing the poles or the cables etc and they probably can enter your property to do that work so I do not know why they mention cherry pickers on the road.  

--Tony--

pmartin86 said:

I think you're really overthinking this, the Electricity and telecoms networks are run and owned by central entities (like National grid and Openreach, you're not suddenly going to get "bobs broadband" or "Larrys 'leccy" sticking a cable up as they would use the existing infrastructure.

As for the 8mb comment, that is painfully slow by modern standards, and eventually you're going to sell the house, and as someone who's recently moved (less than a year ago) I can categorically say I discounted otherwise suitable houses for having poor internet, having FTTP would be a big tick box for me, and countless others. The "High salaries" bit would also be countered by giving local people the chance to get said high paying jobs, so i really don't see the downside.

I'm sorry but that is exactly what is happening, Airband are nothing to do with the "central utilities" they are exactly that a "bobs broadband" outfit sticking cables up and putting out their services into rural areas.
Airband are also sicking up new poles all over the west country, A quick google and you will see the articles about the poles they have put up without following correct "permitted development" planning procedures.

Mistral001 said:

If there is a wayleave at present over your property for the two poles on the roadside, they probably do not need permission to do any work regrading these poles whether it is replacing the poles or the cables etc and they probably can enter your property to do that work so I do not know why they mention cherry pickers on the road.  

Yes those poles have a wayleave, that is the question I am asking, what can be added & how far can it go? It's one thing allowing power cables to run through our land but does a wayleave with Western Power really allow any tom !!!!!! or harry to start attaching more and more wires to these poles?
They need cherry pickers as the wayleave does not apply to them and they believe they are not "accessing" the property by using a cherry picker.
Nothing is being replaced or renewed these are whole new cables being fitted by a company that has no connecting to the Western power that has the wayleave agreement with us.

Mistral001

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Mistral001 said:

If there is a wayleave at present over your property for the two poles on the roadside, they probably do not need permission to do any work regrading these poles whether it is replacing the poles or the cables etc and they probably can enter your property to do that work so I do not know why they mention cherry pickers on the road.  

Yes those pole have a wayleave, that is the question I am asking, what can be added & how far can it go? It's one thing allowing power cables to run through our land but does a wayleave with Western Power really allow any tom !!!!!! or harry to start attaching more and more wires to these poles?

I have a wayleave for an electricity pole in my back garden and I just get a cheque for £2 every year which states that it is "payment for equipment on land".  That seems very general and I wonder if there is anything more specific somewhere. I certainly have never seen any other wayleave legal documents in connection with this.  This link might help you get hold of any documents regarding the wayleave:

Obtain Copy Wayleave Agreement (land-search-online.co.uk)

Eldi_Dos

Mistral001 said:

If there is a wayleave at present over your property for the two poles on the roadside, they probably do not need permission to do any work regrading these poles whether it is replacing the poles or the cables etc and they probably can enter your property to do that work so I do not know why they mention cherry pickers on the road.  

If the wayleave for the poles states they are for the transmission of power that does not give them the right to instal telecomm cables on them, which is why I asked OP to check.

silvercar

You own everything on your land and upwards. So cherry pickers can’t come onto anything upwards of your land from land outside your boundary. Remind them of this. If the poles are on your land then they can’t be touched without a wayleave, whether they are accessed from below, the side or above.

--Tony--

silvercar said:

You own everything on your land and upwards. So cherry pickers can’t come onto anything upwards of your land from land outside your boundary. Remind them of this. If the poles are on your land then they can’t be touched without a wayleave, whether they are accessed from below, the side or above.

I agree, and this was our thought, we know we can't stop this but they should be following correct procedures and (in my view) obtain a correct wayleave from us.
I am aware Ofcom have granted Airband Code Powers which means we cant stop them as they can just apply to the court for leave to enter our property and fix the cables. However we are not actually saying they can't do this work, we are saying we wish to negotiate while they say they don't need to and will just bring cherry pickers in.

I have not given them our final statement yet but I am considering telling them (Airbands solicitors) that any attempt to enter our property even with cherry pickers will be considered trespass, that we are open to negotiation but that we are not willing to allow this work to proceed without correct paperwork and agreements and that any attempt to use Code Powers will be defended on the basis no negotiations have been entered into, despite our best efforts.

Section62

--Tony-- said:

I would have to check the wayleave but I think it is for power only.

Have you checked the wording yet?

As you say, they could also consider going down the code powers route. Don't bank on getting much sympathy from the court if your mum does end up in that position.  Adding one additional 'wire' to existing poles doesn't make a significant difference, especially if all the work can be done without setting foot or wheel on your property.  Courts don't like having their time wasted, and a whatabout argument in relation to other cable companies possibily in the future adding more wires is not going to carry much weight - the court's concern would only be with the one extant proposal.

Is your mum the sole owner of the property? You also use 'our' and 'us' so it isn't clear what the ownership arrangement is.  Be aware that if your mum is the sole owner then if it comes to a 'legal' route then Airband and the courts would want to deal with her, unless you have POA etc to deal with the matter on her behalf. Does she want the stress that this could cause?