And now the forecasters are saying the price cap could hit £6000

littleteapot

Woolsery said:

You provide a single example in this diatribe against the mass of elderly people and it's all classic divide and rule stuff, but please remember not all of us in the generation under discussion voted for privatisation, nor did we necessarily fare well in amassing personal  fortunes. I would dare to suggest the bulk of us are like me, living on less than the average wage in that precarious place somewhere between comfortable living and hand-outs..

Reading again, I have the feeling you'd like to see the redistribution of whatever we older people have amassed and that's roughly what many influential persons in the world of high finance seem to have in mind too, drawing upon socialist models, like China. You will note, however, while prescribing what is good for us, the people, such persons do not lead by example and travel the world in private jets leaving a massive carbon footprint in their wake. I fear the bugs they plan to use as substitutes for polluting cattle will not be on their personal menus either, despite their undoubtedly strong credentials in moving us towards net zero

Follow these people and their celebrity acolytes if you like, but don't for a moment imagine you're one of them.

You could be right - I have finally succumbed to the divide-and-rule tactics that I have been warning others about for many years now. I should not have tarred a whole generation with the same brush and I apologise for the offence that has caused. 

I had let my resentment for the behaviour that I witnessed  on Friday ferment in me all weekend. And perhaps my view has also become very cynical because the market town I have grown up in and still live in has become a popular place for wealthy people to move to for retirement and the resultant property price inflation - which is well above the national average - has forced most younger local people out of the area. Not helped by the Tory council somehow allowing house-building corporations to avoid the requirement for social housing in several new developments. I could go on, but I don't want to stoop to that level of small-mindedness. Plus that's not what this forum is for.

I'm very grateful that my wife and I have learned how to adapt to this year's cost rises (although there's not much more we can cut if this rate of inflation continues for another year or more), and my parents at least will be able to afford the basics this winter, although perhaps not much more.

Regarding your final point, we don't follow any celebrities - in fact we almost never watch TV or use maintream (anti)social media, and are well aware of what the Davos crew have in store for the near future.

murphyslaw2020

Ultrasonic said:

tghe-retford said:

 All cutting usage will do is raise wholesale prices to make firms more profit at the expense of those still paying.

Just on this point, this is the complete opposite of what basic economic theory would suggest would happen. Fundamentally prices are high because demand is exceeding supply. Reducing demand will act to help reverse this, not increase prices further.

Is demand exceeding supply because of purchase of electric vehicles?

Section62

wittynamegoeshere said:

I get the impression that a significant number of vociferous posters on this forum could have a substantial financial or career interest within the industry and seem very keen to sometimes pretty insultingly put down those who question the status quo.  I don't know what the motive is, but the end result is often unpleasant to read.

It is pretty insulting to suggest that anyone who doesn't share your opinion (especially when it comes to matters of fact) must be invested in or employed by the energy industry.

Personally, I think it is important that people coming to this forum can get accurate information, and not be misled into thinking that energy suppliers are making 'massive profits', or that all our problems could be solved by nationalising the energy industry, or by cutting ourselves off from the european/international energy markets.

The way I see it, the "motive" of the "vociferous posters" is to do what they can to help stop this forum descending into another version of Twitter or Facebook where people are free to post all kinds of unchallenged nonsense to the detriment of people who come here seeking help and advice.

Compared to some places on the internet, the MSE forums approximate to a beacon of truth, and without active moderation that can only be because forum members spend their time posting answers to people's questions and making sure that misconceptions don't spread.

If your response is ad-hom attacks on other forum members because they must be part of the industry, rather than being able to support your arguments/opinions with evidence, then I have to wonder whether you have ever put your own question to yourself and considered your own motive here?

Astria

Is it just me that thinks the coincidence of the fuel/energy price crisis is further encouraged to be kept high so that the government can repay the debts incurred over the last few years due to the pandemic? We are billions in debt due to that and this would be a good way of reclaiming those funds without actually raising any taxes - you can just blame prices on other things...

Woolsery

littleteapot said:

Woolsery said:

You provide a single example in this diatribe against the mass of elderly people and it's all classic divide and rule stuff, but please remember not all of us in the generation under discussion voted for privatisation, nor did we necessarily fare well in amassing personal  fortunes. I would dare to suggest the bulk of us are like me, living on less than the average wage in that precarious place somewhere between comfortable living and hand-outs..

Reading again, I have the feeling you'd like to see the redistribution of whatever we older people have amassed and that's roughly what many influential persons in the world of high finance seem to have in mind too, drawing upon socialist models, like China. You will note, however, while prescribing what is good for us, the people, such persons do not lead by example and travel the world in private jets leaving a massive carbon footprint in their wake. I fear the bugs they plan to use as substitutes for polluting cattle will not be on their personal menus either, despite their undoubtedly strong credentials in moving us towards net zero

Follow these people and their celebrity acolytes if you like, but don't for a moment imagine you're one of them.

You could be right - I have finally succumbed to the divide-and-rule tactics that I have been warning others about for many years now. I should not have tarred a whole generation with the same brush and I apologise for the offence that has caused.

No offence taken. I accept the cut and thrust of open debate, though it's not always allowed here!

littleteapot

murphyslaw2020 said:

Is demand exceeding supply because of purchase of electric vehicles?

I'm not sure whether that is the main driver. The main reasons are the reduction in supply of Gas from Russia, and perhaps speculators cashing in on the perceived future imbalance to bump up prices disproportionately.

But certainly mass adoption of electric cars won't help address the imbalance! Although the wealthy people who can afford new electric cars generally also have houses with a large roof area and already have, or are going to have, solar panels fitted which they will to use to more economically charge their cars at home. However in the depths of winter when there is little or no sun, they will then become a heavy burden on the national grid which is already overstretched in those periods of time.

Mstty

Yeah those nasty people, many that worked up from nothing and took risks setting up businesses  put in multiple 20+ hour days and employing people and so on and so on.

What total bankers lol with their large homes and EV's

We all have a stereotype to blame is the point of the above and the above refers to my parents. They had nothing worked more than 20 hour days and for over 20 years employed over 20 staff. They deserve what they have now.

Many of this type of people have put a great deal back into the community through their financial rise and a lot will have filtered down into other people and their financial rise.

It's not quite as simple as looking at a big house with all the toys and being envious as you don't know the story behind it.

wild666

Mstty said:

The simplistic for those that can is "use less"

Learn what everything costs and put a sticky note on it with the cost and decide if you want to turn it on.

For those that can't there are extra funds and each energy company has their dedicated hardship fund. Plus more help is on the way.

As I have said many times before lots of energy users need this major shock to reduce their energy usage.

I think that we are going to see the average usage figures take a drop to 2700 kWh of electric or less and gas usage drop to 9000 kWh or less over the next 12 months or so. Many people are going to seriously cut their usage of both electric and gas as the prices per kWh go up. Many will turn off their gas usage hours earlier and reduce the boiler and thermostat temperatures. Other things they might do is use the TV less or not at all, although I would suspect less usage and more turning off at the wall socket of appliances they aren't using.

Mstty

wild666 said:

Mstty said:

The simplistic for those that can is "use less"

Learn what everything costs and put a sticky note on it with the cost and decide if you want to turn it on.

For those that can't there are extra funds and each energy company has their dedicated hardship fund. Plus more help is on the way.

As I have said many times before lots of energy users need this major shock to reduce their energy usage.

I think that we are going to see the average usage figures take a drop to 2700 kWh of electric or less and gas usage drop to 9000 kWh or less over the next 12 months or so. Many people are going to seriously cut their usage of both electric and gas as the prices per kWh go up. Many will turn off their gas usage hours earlier and reduce the boiler and thermostat temperatures. Other things they might do is use the TV less or not at all, although I would suspect less usage and more turning off at the wall socket of appliances they aren't using.

I do hope so as well as a positive consequence of high energy prices.

Reducing energy is good for the pocket and the planet.

Maybe people will go to bed earlier in the winter(I can see a baby boom here) and not have to hear.

There are so many ways to energy save that I get fed up.woth the constant call for the government to solve everyone's problems.

Targeted support where needed and education for those that are just wasteful.

All this rubbish about people.dying, put on more clothes, buy one or two specialised keep warm items.

Imperial1847

I’ve always lived by the adage that I’d rather my money stay in my pocket than needlessly go in someone else’s, I plan my weekly shopping well to cut down on waste, shop around for whatever I buy in regard to insurances etc, I don’t have Sky TV or other subscription services, I can’t really cut back significantly more without falling into a very basic and uncomfortable standard of living, I work full time in a stressful job and need some release to keep my mental health in check, from September onwards a good third of our monthly disposable income will be gone on bills, in the following months this will increase leaving us with virtually nothing. We won’t be alone in this situation.