Paypal's hidden unpublished exclusions to Buyer Protection Policy.

[Deleted User]

I recently purchased airline tickets through a company called MyTrip  (This post isn't about them, but don't use them - check out their Trustpilot reviews). I had to cancel the tickets the next day (within 24 hours) due to an unforeseen circumstance. The airline operates a courtesy 24 hour cancellation refund policy and have told me that they would authorise the refund but that I would have to claim it through MyTrip.

(MyTrip have now given me 3 or 4 different fake excuses as to why they can't refund.)

I raised the issue as a dispute on Paypal, and Paypal found against my claim. All they told me was that my claim did not fall under the terms and conditions of their Buyer Protection Policy. I looked at the policy and I couldn't see anything to indicate that my situation wasn't covered. When I appealed the decision asking them to explain which part of the policy this fell under, they simply repeated the same line, with no additional details. If I purchased goods, and returned them for a refund under the conditions of sale, and the refund wasn't given, they would (I hope) settle a dispute with the seller in my favour. There is no reason to assume that this would not be the same for a service such as a flight.

After making several telephone calls today I was able to speak to a supervisor at Paypal who told me that that there are some 'special' rules/guidelines that the disputes team follow for things like flights, and that this was why my claim was rejected. She wasn't able to tell me what the 'special' rule/guideline was, just that one existed for flights, and that there were also other 'special' rules for other circumstances that were not listed publicly anywhere. She also pointed out to me that the Buyer Protection Policy states that the disuptes team have the final say in any dispute - which appears to mean that their disputes department can reject any claim on any basis they feel like regardless of the advertised policy - which renders their Buyer Protection Policy as  completely meaningless.

(As for the MyTrip, I am now attempting to get a refund via my credit card and if this doesn’t work I will take small claims court action).

Has anyone else come across this from Paypal? And does anyone know if this is even legal on Paypal’s part? Shouldn't they publish their full policy including all exceptions and 'special' rules for things like flights? Otherwise, are they not guilty of false advertising and being in breach of contract themselves?  I used their service on the basis of the Buyer Protection Policy advertised on their website. As a result of this they have made money on my purchase, but I have not received the service promised by their website.

Additional to the original post:

Just to clarify, sorry i didn't make it clear above - that the fact that I am entitled to a refund isn't in question. Even MyTrip (after initially telling me many outright lies) have now said that they will refund if the airline has a 24 hour cancellation policy and agrees to the refund (both of which they have).  MyTrip have failed to actually make the refund. Hence I passed this to Paypal. 

But my post isn't about MyTrip (which is why I haven't gone into the details of my correspondence with MyTrip). It's about Paypal and that fact that they have told me that they have these additional policies that are not published that create exemptions form their Buyer Protection Policy (eg one relating to flights) that are additional to the exemptions that they publish on their website. And that they claim that they can refuse any dispute claim regardless of the wording of their policy and the legal rights of the customer, and without giving any explanation or reason - all of which I feel renders their Buyer Protection Policy fairly meaningless. 

Please could I ask for responses to this issue, and not the issue of whether or not I am entitled to a refund from MyTrip, which has already been established and is not in dispute.

Apologies for not making this clear.

soolin

PayPal can only recover funds where provider has not provided the service you paid for. So the question is did you book flexible tickets with MyTrip as their FAQs mention cancellable tickets being an option with some airlines , if so remind them that you have purchased additional insurance which will enable you to cancel . If you just bought standard tickets then MyTrip warn these are unlikely to be cancellable . If you have a valid reason for cancelling that is covered by your travel insurance it will be easier to go down that route.

A credit card supplier will work to the same rules, if provider has failed to provide what you paid for then a claim can be started, if however you just changed your mind then a refund won’t be due. 

From the FAQ on MyTrip. https://uk.mytrip.com/support-faq/en-GB/changes-and-cancellations-1352dfbf/can-i-cancel-my-trip-without-cancellation-protection-912f227a/

Can I cancel my trip without cancellation protection?

Yes, you can always cancel your trip, flight, hotel or rental car. However, in order to get your money back, you must normally have to have purchased cancellation protection. This is only applicable to illnesses upon proof of a valid doctor’s certificate. When you have completed your booking and pressed ‘Pay’, the booking is binding.

Want to cancel your flight?

If you want to cancel your flight you must contact us by email or telephone. Note that the flight is not cancelled until you have received confirmation from us. You need to contact us as early as possible!  Different airlines have different rules for how late you can cancel. If you are cancelling close to your departure date and outside of our opening hours, you must always contact the airline directly.

Airline regulations generally do not permit refunds of cancelled tickets. We must always comply with the airline’s regulations and cannot make our own exceptions. However, in some individual cases it is still possible to have airline tickets refunded. We then take an administrative fee that you will have been informed about at the time of booking. The airline also makes a charge for cancellation. 

[Deleted User]

Hi Soolin.

As I said in my original post, Eastern Airways operate a 24 hour courtesy cancellation policy and I believe that all agents are obliged by UK law to pass on the airline's conditions (even though many don't). But, even if this is not the case, MyTrip have agreed to refund me on the basis that the airline does have this policy. But they haven't actually done it. The full story is much more complex  and convoluted than this, but I don't want to get into that here as it's not what my post is about - but the fact that I am owed a refund is esentially not in disute.

Paypal are  not disputing the fact that I am entitled to a refund in the wider world. They have simply said that I am 'not covered by their Buyer Protection Policy' so they won't be issueing the refund. And upon making enquiries I have been told that this is because there is a special unadvertised exemption policy that they follow for flights.  This is different to the policy that they would follow for any other kind of purchase of goods of services that was legitimately cancelled and warranted a refund. Please see OP re this.

My complaint is that Paypal appear to be operating a policy of following undisclosed exemptions to their Buyer Protection Policy. This means that means that claims for flights are treated differently to any other cancelled purchase that is legally entitled to a refund. The supervisor that I spoke to today said that there are several such unpublished policies, or guidelines, that their disputes team follow.

Apolgies that I didn't make that clear. My post and question is about Paypal apparently following unpublished exemption policies, not about MyTrip and whether I am entitled to a refund from them - that bit is not disputed.

tasticz

Sorry to say this but Eastern Airways offer 24 hour cancellation because they charge more price for the ticket.

your contract is not with eastern airways but with my trip. I believe they offer their own insurance policy which allows you to change your mind. Did you purchase this? If not then you’ll be subjected to cancellation charges as per their terms (ignore what eastern airways says)


same applies to all other airlines also. You’ll always have to deal with the company you bought your ticket from.

a lessons learnt for future maybe? And use credit card going ahead not PayPal…

[Deleted User]

Hi Tasticz,  Thank you for responding.

As I indicated in my OP is did pay by credit card (it is possible to use a credit card on Paypal), so no lessons in this respect need to be learned.

MyTrip are not trying to charge a cancellation fee but I would not object to paying one as long as it was a realistic reflection of their costs (EasyJet do this). Insurance isn't relevant as the airline have a 24 hour cancellation policy with MyTrip has agreed to uphold (I believe they are legally obliged to do this -  I am very sure that they wouldn't have agreed to it otherwise). However, dispite this, MyTrip haven't actually refunded me, or even told me that a refund is being processed, one month on. If you have a look at their Trustpilot reviews and you will get an idea of how MyTrip operate.

Paypal are  also not disputing that I am entitled to a refund and they have not said that they rejected my claim for this reason.They said that they rejected it because they apparently have some kind of unpublished 'hidden' exemption policy for cancellations to flights, that they weren't able to give me any details about. It doesn't seem to factor that MyTrip agreed to the refund, or  whether or not I am legally entitled to it - according to Paypal this isn't relevant.

This seems very odd to me. Paypal's website lists all sorts of exemptions to their Buyer Protection Policy, and flights are not listed. So, if what I was told today about this hidden policy regarding flights is true, Paypal would be guilty of false advertising and breach of contract by not outlining it anywhere public.... I would have thought.

My complaint and quesiton is about this - I just wondered if anyone else had come accross these hidden undisclosed apparent exemptions to the Buyer Protection Policy.

mattyprice4004

If your question is have others come across exclusions to the buyer protection policy, then the answer will be a simple yes. There’s many ways they’ll wriggle out of refunding.

The problem is convincing them that MyTrip owe you a refund - even if your airline offer a cancellation policy, the agents policy over-rides this. 

I’m not sure which bit of UK law means they have to mirror the airline’s policy (I don’t think there is one to be honest) so I think this will be a more difficult battle than you currently anticipate. 

tasticz

Using credit card via PayPal doesn’t give you the same protection as paying directly using credit card. Happy to be corrected here, because it breaks the consumer-merchant link?

Diamandis

I dont think there is a specific exception here, I think PayPal just aren't convinced you're actually,  definitely entitled to get your money back in these circumstances. I still don't think that is entirely clear to us, so why you would expect PayPal to pay out on something so uncertain?

soolin

These are the published PayPal seller protection 

————-

Your transactions can be protected

Unauthorized transaction

A buyer asks for a refund after declaring that a purchase was made without their consent, be it for objects or services? If your transaction is eligible, our Seller Protection can help you get the full amount of the payment.

Item not received

A buyer pays for an item, claims they never received it and then files for a refund whether it’s physical objects or services? If your transaction is eligible, our Seller Protection can help you get the full amount of the payment.

———

The OP has neither an authorised transaction nor an item not received so the claim that they were somehow promised a refund does not appear to be covered. These PayPal terms are clearly and openly published. 

If there is an issue here it looks like the issue is with MyTrip, and reading the various threads about them on different forums it doesn’t surprise me. Despite MyTrip suggesting refunds are NOT possible unless the additional cancellation policy is taken out they appear to have told the OP they will get one. Whether this was just to fob them off no one can tell, but if OP has any recorded or written proof this was promised I suggest they persue MyTrip through legal routes. 

As for the card, some will refuse any claim when the payment was made through a third party like PayPal, although some will allow a claim under limited circumstances, but I wouldn’t be holding much hope out here when the claim is based entirely on what OP was or was not promised. 

OP, you refer to this being more complicated than we are aware, but I still think of your reason for cancellation was covered by insurance that you use that to claim. Your chain of purchase with the airline was broken when you used an agent to book rather than go direct , and as you say yourself their reputation is not the best .

sheramber

https://www.paypal.com/hk/webapps/mpp/travel-cancellation-protection

What isn't covered*:

• A simple change of mind about a trip
• Expenses not paid for with PayPal
• A travel agent's cancellation fee

Alderbank

sheramber said:

https://www.paypal.com/hk/webapps/mpp/travel-cancellation-protection

What isn't covered*:

• A simple change of mind about a trip
• Expenses not paid for with PayPal
• A travel agent's cancellation fee

Sheramber you have quoted specific terms for PayPal Hong Kong Limited.
Their T&Cs include:

PayPal Hong Kong Limited...is licensed by the Hong Kong Monetary Authority. 
These legal agreements and notices provide terms and conditions related to specific PayPal services in Hong Kong.

Is there a reason for choosing terms from that country?