New smart meters but gas meter too far from electricity meter

Chrysalis

Sadly the meters seem built to a very strict low cost, hence the IHD having the weakest battery I have ever seen (only lasts about an hour or two), and the range for meters between them is extremely low.  Even 20 year old 2.4g wifi tech on a budget wifi router is superior for range.

My distance is about 6-8m (direct through walls) with two walls, it works, but I believe the limit is not much higher then that.

[Deleted User]

Chrysalis said:

Sadly the meters seem built to a very strict low cost, hence the IHD having the weakest battery I have ever seen (only lasts about an hour or two), and the range for meters between them is extremely low.  Even 20 year old 2.4g wifi tech on a budget wifi router is superior for range.

My distance is about 6-8m (direct through walls) with two walls, it works, but I believe the limit is not much higher then that.

But your wifi is anything but secure even with a strong password. IHDs were never designed to be used as battery only devices: hence the small battery.

All communications hubs have GCHQ-level security. There are plans to replace all the communications hubs as they need a mobile network upgrade. When this happens we will likely see the deployment of dual-band communications hubs.

QrizB

Chrysalis said:

Sadly the meters seem built to a very strict low cost, hence the IHD having the weakest battery I have ever seen (only lasts about an hour or two)

My IHD uses three AAAs. Yours is rechargeable?

victor2

QrizB said:

Chrysalis said:

Sadly the meters seem built to a very strict low cost, hence the IHD having the weakest battery I have ever seen (only lasts about an hour or two)

My IHD uses three AAAs. Yours is rechargeable?

My IHD doesn't have any batteries. If it ain't plugged in it doesn't work.

brewerdave

[Deleted User] said:

Chrysalis said:

Sadly the meters seem built to a very strict low cost, hence the IHD having the weakest battery I have ever seen (only lasts about an hour or two), and the range for meters between them is extremely low.  Even 20 year old 2.4g wifi tech on a budget wifi router is superior for range.

My distance is about 6-8m (direct through walls) with two walls, it works, but I believe the limit is not much higher then that.

All communications hubs have GCHQ-level security. There are plans to replace all the communications hubs as they need a mobile network upgrade. When this happens we will likely see the deployment of dual-band communications hubs.

There are already shortages of the previous versions and waiting lists for initial installs - which century do you think they will get round to replacing the existing installs ??

QrizB

brewerdave said:

[Deleted User] said:

Chrysalis said:

Sadly the meters seem built to a very strict low cost, hence the IHD having the weakest battery I have ever seen (only lasts about an hour or two), and the range for meters between them is extremely low.  Even 20 year old 2.4g wifi tech on a budget wifi router is superior for range.

My distance is about 6-8m (direct through walls) with two walls, it works, but I believe the limit is not much higher then that.

All communications hubs have GCHQ-level security. There are plans to replace all the communications hubs as they need a mobile network upgrade. When this happens we will likely see the deployment of dual-band communications hubs.

There are already shortages of the previous versions and waiting lists for initial installs - which century do you think they will get round to replacing the existing installs ??

Replacing comms hubs is a relatively simple job. They're all planned to be changed by, I think, 2030.

brewerdave

QrizB said:

brewerdave said:

[Deleted User] said:

Chrysalis said:

Sadly the meters seem built to a very strict low cost, hence the IHD having the weakest battery I have ever seen (only lasts about an hour or two), and the range for meters between them is extremely low.  Even 20 year old 2.4g wifi tech on a budget wifi router is superior for range.

My distance is about 6-8m (direct through walls) with two walls, it works, but I believe the limit is not much higher then that.

All communications hubs have GCHQ-level security. There are plans to replace all the communications hubs as they need a mobile network upgrade. When this happens we will likely see the deployment of dual-band communications hubs.

There are already shortages of the previous versions and waiting lists for initial installs - which century do you think they will get round to replacing the existing installs ??

Replacing comms hubs is a relatively simple job. They're all planned to be changed by, I think, 2030.

If I thought I was definitely going to be around in 2030 - it would be worth a bet with you !! 
FWIW I think some of the dates being bandied about ,are going to recede into the future eg  even 2035 may be too soon for the Boris ban on gas boilers unless someone invests huge amounts in production facilities for heat pumps AND in training of fitters etc.

Northern_Wanderer

victor2 said:

Northern_Wanderer said:

victor2 said:

The "thing" is the communications hub. If gas meters are more than 10 metres away from the hub, or there are walls in the way, the gas meter may fail to connect to it.

Thanks. Mine are about 7m apart, with two internal walls and an external cavity wall in between as gas meter is outside. How likely is it that mine would be able to connect to eachother?

My IHD connects through 2 or 3 internal walls to the hub/meters in the attached garage over something like that distance, but did complain periodically (several times a day) that it had lost the signal and was reconnecting until I moved it a bit closer, but same number of walls. The meters themselves are on the same wall inside the garage and only a few metres apart.

Chrysalis said:

Sadly the meters seem built to a very strict low cost, hence the IHD having the weakest battery I have ever seen (only lasts about an hour or two), and the range for meters between them is extremely low.  Even 20 year old 2.4g wifi tech on a budget wifi router is superior for range.

My distance is about 6-8m (direct through walls) with two walls, it works, but I believe the limit is not much higher then that.

I assume that you are referring to the meters connecting to the IHD ? I was asking about the ability of the gas meter to send readings to the supplier via the electric meter. I would assume this is nothing to do with the IHD.

[Deleted User]

Northern_Wanderer said:

victor2 said:

Northern_Wanderer said:

victor2 said:

The "thing" is the communications hub. If gas meters are more than 10 metres away from the hub, or there are walls in the way, the gas meter may fail to connect to it.

Thanks. Mine are about 7m apart, with two internal walls and an external cavity wall in between as gas meter is outside. How likely is it that mine would be able to connect to eachother?

My IHD connects through 2 or 3 internal walls to the hub/meters in the attached garage over something like that distance, but did complain periodically (several times a day) that it had lost the signal and was reconnecting until I moved it a bit closer, but same number of walls. The meters themselves are on the same wall inside the garage and only a few metres apart.

Chrysalis said:

Sadly the meters seem built to a very strict low cost, hence the IHD having the weakest battery I have ever seen (only lasts about an hour or two), and the range for meters between them is extremely low.  Even 20 year old 2.4g wifi tech on a budget wifi router is superior for range.

My distance is about 6-8m (direct through walls) with two walls, it works, but I believe the limit is not much higher then that.

I assume that you are referring to the meters connecting to the IHD ? I was asking about the ability of the gas meter to send readings to the supplier via the electric meter. I would assume this is nothing to do with the IHD.

The communications hub establishes a Home Area Network (HAN). Both the IHD and the gas meter connect to the HAN. 

Built into the communications hub is a gas proxy meter which uses the gas volume measurement and the tariff from the gas meter (GSME) to produce a kWh usage reading and cost which is displayed on the IHD.

The communications hub also connects to the DCC wide area network (WAN) directly or via a mesh (if this has been set up in your area). 

The supplier pulls data from the electricity meter (ESME) and from the gas proxy meter usually once per day (depending on customer profile). It is often reported that gas readings are sent via the ESME but this is only true in the sense that the ESME is connected to the communications hub. This how the communications hub gets its power.

In theory, the gas meter and the communications hub should pair at any distance up to 10M; however, this is rarely the case. Such things as metal objects near the communications hub; weather conditions (eg; heavy rain) can interfere with the HAN. I lose the HAN signal to my IHD at about 1M because I have foil-backed wall insulation. Dual band communications hubs are seen as a possible solution. The DCC is responsible for all communications hubs - not individual suppliers. These are planned to be rolled out under the DCC Evolution programme: I have yet to find a timetable.

Edit:

It would seem that the programme to rollout dual band meters and communications hubs has now started (as at 8 Jul 22):

Penny Brown, chief operating officer at DCC, said: “The DCC’s secure nationwide network continues to grow at a consistent rate, adding a million smart meters in less than 2 months.

“More people than ever can get a smart meter, as the DCC and its customers, the energy suppliers, deploy new technology such as dual band meters and communication hubs.”

The technology of dual band smart meters adds a second wireless band, which improves communications through thicker walls and long distances and will further unlock 20% of homes and small businesses, allowing them to get smart meters.

You will need to contact your supplier to see if they have any stock and whether they will agree to replace your existing smart meters and hub.

Northern_Wanderer

[Deleted User] said:

Northern_Wanderer said:

victor2 said:

Northern_Wanderer said:

victor2 said:

The "thing" is the communications hub. If gas meters are more than 10 metres away from the hub, or there are walls in the way, the gas meter may fail to connect to it.

Thanks. Mine are about 7m apart, with two internal walls and an external cavity wall in between as gas meter is outside. How likely is it that mine would be able to connect to eachother?

My IHD connects through 2 or 3 internal walls to the hub/meters in the attached garage over something like that distance, but did complain periodically (several times a day) that it had lost the signal and was reconnecting until I moved it a bit closer, but same number of walls. The meters themselves are on the same wall inside the garage and only a few metres apart.

Chrysalis said:

Sadly the meters seem built to a very strict low cost, hence the IHD having the weakest battery I have ever seen (only lasts about an hour or two), and the range for meters between them is extremely low.  Even 20 year old 2.4g wifi tech on a budget wifi router is superior for range.

My distance is about 6-8m (direct through walls) with two walls, it works, but I believe the limit is not much higher then that.

I assume that you are referring to the meters connecting to the IHD ? I was asking about the ability of the gas meter to send readings to the supplier via the electric meter. I would assume this is nothing to do with the IHD.

The communications hub establishes a Home Area Network (HAN). Both the IHD and the gas meter connect to the HAN. 

Built into the communications hub is a gas proxy meter which uses the gas volume measurement and the tariff from the gas meter (GSME) to produce a kWh usage reading and cost which is displayed on the IHD.

The communications hub also connects to the DCC wide area network (WAN) directly or via a mesh (if this has been set up in your area). 

The supplier pulls data from the electricity meter (ESME) and from the gas proxy meter usually once per day (depending on customer profile). It is often reported that gas readings are sent via the ESME but this is only true in the sense that the ESME is connected to the communications hub. This how the communications hub gets its power.

In theory, the gas meter and the communications hub should pair at any distance up to 10M; however, this is rarely the case. Such things as metal objects near the communications hub; weather conditions (eg; heavy rain) can interfere with the HAN. I lose the HAN signal to my IHD at about 1M because I have foil-backed wall insulation. Dual band communications hubs are seen as a possible solution. The DCC is responsible for all communications hubs - not individual suppliers. These are planned to be rolled out under the DCC Evolution programme: I have yet to find a timetable.

Edit:

It would seem that the programme to rollout dual band meters and communications hubs has now started (as at 8 Jul 22):

Penny Brown, chief operating officer at DCC, said: “The DCC’s secure nationwide network continues to grow at a consistent rate, adding a million smart meters in less than 2 months.

“More people than ever can get a smart meter, as the DCC and its customers, the energy suppliers, deploy new technology such as dual band meters and communication hubs.”

The technology of dual band smart meters adds a second wireless band, which improves communications through thicker walls and long distances and will further unlock 20% of homes and small businesses, allowing them to get smart meters.

You will need to contact your supplier to see if they have any stock and whether they will agree to replace your existing smart meters and hub.

@[Deleted User] Thank you for such a detailed response. I doubt that my gas meter would be able connect to the electric meter, so until they can come up with the solution, my gas meter will stay dumb as I don't see the point in installing a smart gas meter if it is dumb.