New unfair Halifax bank account condition

BenWh13

So the Halifax is introducing a new condition on its current and savings accounts that allows it to help itself to any or all of my balance in the event of "economic circumstances affecting the banking industry". Rather than the bank fail, and thus triggering FSCS payouts, it will be able to "impose a charge" on everyone's account. There appears to be no limit to the amount of charge that could be imposed, so it could be in theory 100%.

I am frankly astonished that people are not up in arms about this - I have written to newspapers, Which? and MSE and no response. Waiting for my FOS complaint to be looked at, and the FCA unfair contract terms team to come back to me. Anyone else noticed this/concerned by this?

Daliah

BenWh13 said:

So the Halifax is introducing a new condition on its current and savings accounts that allows it to help itself to any or all of my balance 

You are misunderstanding, there is no such clause in the changed terms. They cannot help themselves to any of your money.

If there are ever circumstances when they limit the amount you can have with them, or if they start charging you for holding your money, you will have the opportunity to move your money elsewhere.

Nothing unfair in those terms.

In any case, though, holding a lot of money in Halifax seems ill advised as their interest rates are rather uncompetitive.

BenWh13

Daliah said:

BenWh13 said:

So the Halifax is introducing a new condition on its current and savings accounts that allows it to help itself to any or all of my balance 

You are misunderstanding, there is no such clause in the changed terms.

Assuming you can see the image I attached to my post, I highlighted it! In case you can't see that image, here it is in full:

"We've added a new condition that says if it's necessary, due to economic circumstances that affect the banking industry, we may restrict the amount you can have in your accounts either by applying a limit or by imposing a charge. If we have to do this and it applies to your account, we’ll write to you with more information."

eskbanker

BenWh13 said:

Anyone else noticed this/concerned by this?

Yes, it's discussed at https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6378507/were-making-some-changes-to-our-t-cs-says-halifax/p1

Daliah

BenWh13 said:

Daliah said:

BenWh13 said:

So the Halifax is introducing a new condition on its current and savings accounts that allows it to help itself to any or all of my balance 

You are misunderstanding, there is no such clause in the changed terms.

Assuming you can see the image I attached to my post, I highlighted it! In case you can't see that image, here it is in full:

"We've added a new condition that says if it's necessary, due to economic circumstances that affect the banking industry, we may restrict the amount you can have in your accounts either by applying a limit or by imposing a charge. If we have to do this and it applies to your account, we’ll write to you with more information."

Yes I have seen the image you posted, and I have read the term a couple of weeks ago when Halifax advised the changes to me.  The clause does not say that they can help themselves to any of your money.

Ebe_Scrooge

The way I interpret it, they're just saying they'll have the right to impose a limit on the amount you can deposit with them.  If you go over that limit then there'll be a charge.  No different to if you go over your overdraft or credit card limit.  If they set a limit of, let's say for the sake of argument £50,000 and you've currently got £60,000 with them then they'll contact you - and you can just transfer £10,000 to another account somewhere else.

BenWh13

Ebe_Scrooge said:

The way I interpret it, they're just saying they'll have the right to impose a limit on the amount you can deposit with them.  If you go over that limit then there'll be a charge.  No different to if you go over your overdraft or credit card limit.  If they set a limit of, let's say for the sake of argument £50,000 and you've currently got £60,000 with them then they'll contact you - and you can just transfer £10,000 to another account somewhere else.

It says "restrict the amount you can have in your account EITHER by applying a limit OR by imposing a charge." Let's say I have £50,000 - they could say "no more deposits allowed" OR impose a charge of £10, £1,000, £10,000 (or more) under that term. No guarantee they will allow me to move it elsewhere before imposing the charge. Appreciate there would be an outcry at that point, but it seems they would only do it if they were on the brink of failure anyway so might not care.

Daliah

They state " If we have to do this and it applies to your account, we’ll write to you with more information." You could perhaps reasonably ask that they state that they will write to you x weeks / x days before the change comes into effect but even with extremely short notice, you can remove your funds within minutes. Unless you have been a bit silly and kept high 5 figure sums in Halifax, or have your money in one of their fixed term accounts. 

Anyway, I don't think there is any reason for being upset or to panic about this new term. Which, BTW, will apply across all LB Group members, and possibly other banks, too. Starling Bank, for instance as well as e-money provider Wise, did charge for a while for holding more than €50,000, though they stopped it again (I am guessing because they didn't have anyone paying it, anyway).

callum9999

BenWh13 said:

Ebe_Scrooge said:

The way I interpret it, they're just saying they'll have the right to impose a limit on the amount you can deposit with them.  If you go over that limit then there'll be a charge.  No different to if you go over your overdraft or credit card limit.  If they set a limit of, let's say for the sake of argument £50,000 and you've currently got £60,000 with them then they'll contact you - and you can just transfer £10,000 to another account somewhere else.

It says "restrict the amount you can have in your account EITHER by applying a limit OR by imposing a charge." Let's say I have £50,000 - they could say "no more deposits allowed" OR impose a charge of £10, £1,000, £10,000 (or more) under that term. No guarantee they will allow me to move it elsewhere before imposing the charge. Appreciate there would be an outcry at that point, but it seems they would only do it if they were on the brink of failure anyway so might not care.

No they could not introduce a £10,000 charge - that would clearly be deemed unfair and so unenforceable. Nor, barring the introduction of extremely unlikely legislation, would they introduce any charges without giving notice.

They would categorically not be allowed to freeze everyone's account and block transfers before introducing such a charge - whether they're on the brink of failure or not. Nor would this clause ever be used to grab money to remain solvent - as Daliah touched upon, this is a standard charge used when central bank interest rates are negative (which is unlikely for the foreseeable future, and is incredibly unlikely to be more than a percentage point or two). Halifax would be charged for depositing money so would just be passing it on to you.

Daliah said:

They state " If we have to do this and it applies to your account, we’ll write to you with more information." You could perhaps reasonably ask that they state that they will write to you x weeks / x days before the change comes into effect but even with extremely short notice, you can remove your funds within minutes. Unless you have been a bit silly and kept high 5 figure sums in Halifax, or have your money in one of their fixed term accounts. 

Anyway, I don't think there is any reason for being upset or to panic about this new term. Which, BTW, will apply across all LB Group members, and possibly other banks, too. Starling Bank, for instance as well as e-money provider Wise, did charge for a while for holding more than €50,000, though they stopped it again (I am guessing because they didn't have anyone paying it, anyway).

They presumably stopped it because the Eurozone interest rate is no longer negative. 

Daliah

callum9999 said:

They presumably stopped it because the Eurozone interest rate is no longer negative. 

I don't know the real reason, but I do know that there are still one or two banks in Euroland happily charging for deposits greater €x, where x is generally a high 5 figure or even a low 6 figure number. Most don't charge any longer now.

Migster

That new term clearly doesn't mean what the OP assumes it does. Any detrimental change to T&Cs/Fees has to be advised a minimum of 60 days in advance, so if they ever introduce this charge, the OP will have a couple of months to move their money elsewhere.