energy bills - a suggestion

Mnesarchus

Could the electricity generators re introduce Economy 7, and UKGov concurrently subsidise night storage heaters for the vulnerable? Won't solve the whole of the problem of course, but no one thing will solve it (without a dreadful hangover for someone else). Seems simple and just about implementable in a couple of months....It would require a lot of safe and tested heaters v quickly, but they're simpler technology than Covid vaccines.

Any other practical suggestions most welcome.....

brewerdave

But the major issue would be the metering of night use and changes to wiring for the heaters not so much heater supply.
Never had E7 but my understanding is that some suppliers don't/can't even support E7

Northern_Wanderer

This might be good if you are a shift worker but who wants to pay for heat during the night when it's not needed and be cold during the day plus pay a premium for day rate?

EssexHebridean

Mnesarchus said:

Could the electricity generators re introduce Economy 7, and UKGov concurrently subsidise night storage heaters for the vulnerable? Won't solve the whole of the problem of course, but no one thing will solve it (without a dreadful hangover for someone else). Seems simple and just about implementable in a couple of months....It would require a lot of safe and tested heaters v quickly, but they're simpler technology than Covid vaccines.

Any other practical suggestions most welcome.....

"Re-Introduce"? It's not gone anywhere - at least I hope it hasn't, or my two-rate meter is going to be a bit obsolete by the time I get home tonight...

Northern_Wanderer said:

This might be good if you are a shift worker but who wants to pay for heat during the night when it's not needed and be cold during the day plus pay a premium for day rate?

That's not the way storage heaters work... the clue here can be found in the word "storage". 

brewerdave

Northern_Wanderer said:

This might be good if you are a shift worker but who wants to pay for heat during the night when it's not needed and be cold during the day plus pay a premium for day rate?

Night storage heaters were designed to store heat during the night on cheap rate electricity then release the heat during daylight hours.

Max68

It's a pity that there doesn't seem to be a heater that is as economical as a pedestal fan, unless someone can correct me.  In this hot weather I have been running one pretty much 24/7 and I was originally concerned on usage but they incredibly use next to nothing, even using for many hours a day.  

Mnesarchus

brewerdave said:

But the major issue would be the metering of night use and changes to wiring for the heaters not so much heater supply.
Never had E7 but my understanding is that some suppliers don't/can't even support E7

I'm not an electrical engineer, I'm sure there are others on here who are. I think E7 used to be separate circuits. My suggestion is the electricity generators reduce their tariffs overnight ie when they have excess production capacity - which is just a billing issue which all of them surely can change quickly and easily; and storage heaters that work on the standard 13amp circuits we all have.

Mnesarchus

Northern_Wanderer said:

This might be good if you are a shift worker but who wants to pay for heat during the night when it's not needed and be cold during the day plus pay a premium for day rate?

I accept it wouldn't help everyone. I was hoping it might be workable and help many (not all) vulnerable folk. 

Everyone would  get the benefit of reduced charges for anything running overnight eg fridge/freezer, washing machine.

dunstonh

 I think E7 used to be separate circuits

That was one way but not the only way.  We have E7 (not for heating reasons) and the day and night rate just switch over at a given time.   Any devices we want specifically to use electricity at the night rate we have on independent timers.

   and storage heaters that work on the standard 13amp circuits we all have.

We don't all have 13amp

newlywed

We have e7 meter but no storage heaters…. Not for the last 17 years at least… we have gas central heating.

bulb are our current supplier and refuse to put us on a combined rate, refuse to change the meter to a non e7 without an electricians letter to say we don’t have storage heaters and/or a letter from our housing association landlord (just not even worth asking them for a letter to confirm anything since they struggle to get the name of the tenants correct on the rent increase notices).

but we live in a flat… so washing machines spinning at midnight are not a neighbour friendly thing.

Section62

Mnesarchus said:

brewerdave said:

But the major issue would be the metering of night use and changes to wiring for the heaters not so much heater supply.
Never had E7 but my understanding is that some suppliers don't/can't even support E7

I'm not an electrical engineer, I'm sure there are others on here who are. I think E7 used to be separate circuits. My suggestion is the electricity generators reduce their tariffs overnight ie when they have excess production capacity - which is just a billing issue which all of them surely can change quickly and easily; and storage heaters that work on the standard 13amp circuits we all have.

There are different implementations of E7.  In some areas it was 'whole house' in which all the consumption for the property is recorded against either a day or night register.  In others, an off-peak ('heating') CU is only energised during the off-peak hours and consumption on that CU (only) recorded as cheap rate.

The overnight excess production capacity is a bit of a myth these days.  When coal provided the baseload there was excess capacity and it made sense to encourage people to use it.  Now we are in a situation where there may be excess production from wind power (but not always) and if wind output is low the shortfall has to be made up by burning more gas.  An overall shortfall is more likely to happen at night time (and/or winter months) when solar output also drops.

The old concept of peak/off-peak no longer applies in the same way it once did.