Oct price cap increase likely to push energy bill to over £10k... for a family of 4...

michaels

MariaAH said:

michaels said:

There don't seem to be any definitive figures for AC charging loss on EVs but generally a figure of 10-15% is quoted using a dedicated wall charger, higher if you are charging from a plug socket.

That is good progress on the gas, I wish our household members were so easy to convince of the merits of thinking about water consumption.

In terms of how much you can save on the gas, you can get a pretty good idea on what proportion of annual consumption is hot water rather than heating by looking at summer usage when the heating is off (although that is slight below average for hot water as the incoming cold supply is warmer in the summer)

I would not say my kids (age 19 and 22) were 'easy' to convince, but think they got fed up of being nagged and moaned at!

Ours are still at teh point of going into the bathroom, turning on the shower 'to get warm' (30s or less as it is pretty near the tank) and then spending 5-10 minutes finishing social media chats before actually getting under the water...

MariaAH

michaels said:

Ours are still at teh point of going into the bathroom, turning on the shower 'to get warm' (30s or less as it is pretty near the tank) and then spending 5-10 minutes finishing social media chats before actually getting under the water...

Ours are at the point of leaving lights on all the time. Went to bed last week and turned off all lights. Kids came home after we went to bed, and then went out again for another hour to get something to eat, leaving lights on in the lounge, hallway and kitchen as well as the TV on in the lounge. I'm going to start fining them.

xeny

Is there anything to stop you threatening or implementing a simple bill split amongst those who are employed, possibly with adjustments for EV charging?

Spies

michaels said:

MariaAH said:

UPDATE: In the last week we have made a serious effort to reduce shower time, and have more than halved our gas usage per day. Based on today's rate, that equates to approx £285 a year saving, but obviously savings will be greater when price cap goes up in Oct. We will be seriously targeting winter gas usage too by turning thermostat down 3 degrees.

Electricity is a harder one to crack and use over last week is around about the same as usual. TP link monitors have been plugged into son's gaming PC and Aircon since Thurs...but am going to leave them in place for a full 7 days before making an assessment as he is not typical 9-5 usage. A very rough guess at the moment is possibly about £700 a year, but will get a full 7 day reading to get a better idea. Yes this is a lot but we can ensure we charge him for the electricity he actually uses.

The fact that we all work from home clearly does increase the electricity we use, but I guess we have to balance that versus how much it would cost if we travelled into work more. The fact that we have EVs does make the energy bill so much higher, but then we do not have the petrol to pay for out of remaining income.

Our EVs, whilst still cheaper to run (and better for the environment), they are clearly not as efficient as headline figures from the manufacturer would suggest as there are so many variables. An example:

My son charged his EV from 48% (93 miles) to 100% (194 miles)

• First of all, the suggestion is that he gets 194 miles on a full charge versus the 238miles quoted by Renault. My son says that if he uses aircon/heating etc, in reality he can sometimes only gets 160 miles on a full charge.
• Charging up 52% used 33.19 kW according to the Hypervolt app, whereas 52% of the cars 52kW battery is 27.04 kW...There is a loss on charging.
• This suggests that charging the 52kW battery from 0 to 100% could use 63.83kW? However, if the battery is 'not at the right temperature to accept the charge', then more energy would be consumed as the car will use energy to warm the battery up or cool it down. So charging during very warm or very cold weather is a lot less efficient.
• Headline figures from manufacturer state approx 4 miles per kWh (7p a mile at todays rate) but this does not include any charging losses, nor reduced range in hot/cold weather. So during the extremely hot weather we have had, huge losses during charging plus reduced range due to using aircon, could have reduced that to 2.3 miles per kWh (more like 12p a mile at todays rate). This DOES, however, explain WHY there is such difference between the mileage used vs the energy consumed based on our expectations. One thing is for sure, just looking at the car data which tells me on average I get 3.9 miles per kWh does NOT tell the whole story. 

There don't seem to be any definitive figures for AC charging loss on EVs but generally a figure of 10-15% is quoted using a dedicated wall charger, higher if you are charging from a plug socket.

That is good progress on the gas, I wish our household members were so easy to convince of the merits of thinking about water consumption.

In terms of how much you can save on the gas, you can get a pretty good idea on what proportion of annual consumption is hot water rather than heating by looking at summer usage when the heating is off (although that is slight below average for hot water as the incoming cold supply is warmer in the summer)

Why are the losses higher from a wall socket? Is the cars on board charger less efficient at lower amperage? 

MariaAH

xeny said:

Is there anything to stop you threatening or implementing a simple bill split amongst those who are employed, possibly with adjustments for EV charging?

That is what I am aiming to do with my son - I am measuring his gaming PC/aircon usage with a TP link monitor plug (to get a weekly average) and can track his EV charging consumption (although his dad sometimes uses his car as we are sharing 2 cars between 3). 

markin

I have to question the need for a 22yo to have a new expensive car, The monthly can't be cheap,   And I hope your charging for his miles! Or is it not in his name.  Is he saving for a house deposit?

MariaAH

markin said:

I have to question the need for a 22yo to have a new expensive car, The monthly can't be cheap,   And I hope your charging for his miles! Or is it not in his name.  Is he saving for a house deposit?

The 22 year old has had a car since he was 19. He is self employed, a director of his own software company, hence electric car is a tax efficient purchase. And yes, we are tracking his consumption from the Hypervolt app and will charge him for his use. He is trying to save for a house deposit, but I would not be encouraging him to move out at the moment the way the cost of living is going. 

Magnitio

MariaAH said:

michaels said:

Ours are still at teh point of going into the bathroom, turning on the shower 'to get warm' (30s or less as it is pretty near the tank) and then spending 5-10 minutes finishing social media chats before actually getting under the water...

Ours are at the point of leaving lights on all the time. Went to bed last week and turned off all lights. Kids came home after we went to bed, and then went out again for another hour to get something to eat, leaving lights on in the lounge, hallway and kitchen as well as the TV on in the lounge. I'm going to start fining them.

I'm sure it may have been mentioned in the 26 pages of discussion about light bulbs, but are all the lights LED's? Do you have a large numbers of bulbs on each switch? If you do, and they are on a lot, it can be worth taking a few of the bulbs out.

TheGardener

MariaAH said:

michaels said:

Ours are still at teh point of going into the bathroom, turning on the shower 'to get warm' (30s or less as it is pretty near the tank) and then spending 5-10 minutes finishing social media chats before actually getting under the water...

Ours are at the point of leaving lights on all the time. Went to bed last week and turned off all lights. Kids came home after we went to bed, and then went out again for another hour to get something to eat, leaving lights on in the lounge, hallway and kitchen as well as the TV on in the lounge. I'm going to start fining them.

This is where my solar motion sensor lights are coming into their own, particularly in the kitchen and hallway. I have already told them their board payments will be rising by around 15% and if they don't start thinking about their energy use - it will go up by 25% and may double after Christmas unless there is a concerted effort. I don't think as a parent I am doing them any service whatsoever cushioning the blow for them - tough lessons for all of us at the mo - not just the kids

philipbin

MariaAH said:

We will be seriously targeting winter gas usage too by turning thermostat down 3 degrees.

When will I see you again ?