if russia turns off

BUFF

ioealshk said:

It's not Russia turning the gas off... They rely on that income. EU refuses to pay in roubles and the sanctions prevent the return of pumping turbine from Canada to Russia. EU also blocked the launch of Nord Stream 2. And our politicians have boasted for ages that we only get 13% of our gas from Russia, and therefore won't be affected.

I highly doubt Russia will turn the gas off, it's the EU that will shoot itself in the foot and bring us down in the process. Hopefully by autumn the Germany will come to its senses, but who knows. In theory we shouldn't be affected (because THIRTEEN PERCENT), but it seems the UK producers rise their prices accordingly for the domestic market, so we are all in the same pot.

It's actually shocking (not) that the politicians have been methodically closing the coal mines and plants and relying more and more on gas imports... as if they wanted to hit the ordinary folk with these extortionate prices.

It is Russia turning the gas supply to Europe down (& potentially off). They will just sell the supply to China/India etc. instead.
Canada flew the turbine back to Germany  on the 17th of July.

We'll see. What country are you in? The UK got 3-4% of it's gas from Russia not 13%.
UK prices are driven by the global market prices, why would producers sell their product for less than they could get elsewhere?

Coal is the dirtiest fuel, gas is markedly cleaner & in case you haven't noticed there is a global climate (& biodiversity) crisis.

mark_cycling00

The Russian gas fields that supply Europe are not connected to the pipeline that supplies China. 

So Russia can't flog the nordstream gas to China. 

BUFF

They can, they just have to ship it differently rather than direct pipe.

[Deleted User]

ioealshk said:

I highly doubt Russia will turn the gas off, it's the EU that will shoot itself in the foot and bring us down in the process. Hopefully by autumn the Germany will come to its senses, but who knows. In theory we shouldn't be affected (because THIRTEEN PERCENT), but it seems the UK producers rise their prices accordingly for the domestic market, so we are all in the same pot.

‘Come to its senses’. Wow.

Germany, along with most of the World, is standing up against at aggressor Nation which has invaded a democratic country: Ukraine. The UK Government is taking a leadership role in getting European nations to reduce their dependence on Russian gas and oil. 

Are you saying that the World should just leave Ukraine to its fate - that is, we should adopt a policy of appeasement - and that we should all start buying Russian oil again just because World gas prices are affecting your energy bill? 

Democracy, the right for people to choose, is something that millions in this Country and others have given their lives for over 2 World Wars. 

By the way, there is no ‘theory’ about it. We live in a global World and the oil price is set on a global basis whether we import Russian gas or not.

Seriously, there are some things worth standing up for - even if it comes at a financial cost.

SAC2334

TimSynths said:

It is certainly a worrying thought and could happen. I'm taking steps to insulate my home so I can use less or none at all if it comes down to it.
My neighbour is taking out his (mostly unused) gas fire and putting a wood burner in, was originally a coal fire but central heating fitted back in the 60's.
Besides that its prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

I was considering doing the same thing but a gas safe man I know said its much cheaper just to heat the one room with the 4kw gas fire and maybe just put central heating on for just an hour in the morning and evening to take off the chill.
So before removing the fitted gas fire I m going to check the usage of Gas fire V central heating to see how they compare in actual kwh use on the meter week by week. 
My boiler is a 28 kw combi 
Using  kiln dried wood, as we are required to do by order of the local council in my area you can bet they will increase their  prices too and its a lot of hassle nad  is a last resort. You can t have the wrong colour smoke in my street or they are phoning the environmental dept.

TimSynths

SAC2334 said:

TimSynths said:

It is certainly a worrying thought and could happen. I'm taking steps to insulate my home so I can use less or none at all if it comes down to it.
My neighbour is taking out his (mostly unused) gas fire and putting a wood burner in, was originally a coal fire but central heating fitted back in the 60's.
Besides that its prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

I was considering doing the same thing but a gas safe man I know said its much cheaper just to heat the one room with the 4kw gas fire and maybe just put central heating on for just an hour in the morning and evening to take off the chill.
So before removing the fitted gas fire I m going to check the usage of Gas fire V central heating to see how they compare in actual kwh use on the meter week by week. 
My boiler is a 28 kw combi 
Using  kiln dried wood, as we are required to do by order of the local council in my area you can bet they will increase their  prices too and its a lot of hassle nad  is a last resort. You can t have the wrong colour smoke in my street or they are phoning the environmental dept.

Let me help you out with that- its question I asked a while back so may be of interest to you-

Cost question Gas fire V Central heating. — MoneySavingExpert Forum

SAC2334

TimSynths said:

SAC2334 said:

TimSynths said:

It is certainly a worrying thought and could happen. I'm taking steps to insulate my home so I can use less or none at all if it comes down to it.
My neighbour is taking out his (mostly unused) gas fire and putting a wood burner in, was originally a coal fire but central heating fitted back in the 60's.
Besides that its prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

I was considering doing the same thing but a gas safe man I know said its much cheaper just to heat the one room with the 4kw gas fire and maybe just put central heating on for just an hour in the morning and evening to take off the chill.
So before removing the fitted gas fire I m going to check the usage of Gas fire V central heating to see how they compare in actual kwh use on the meter week by week. 
My boiler is a 28 kw combi 
Using  kiln dried wood, as we are required to do by order of the local council in my area you can bet they will increase their  prices too and its a lot of hassle nad  is a last resort. You can t have the wrong colour smoke in my street or they are phoning the environmental dept.

Let me help you out with that- its question I asked a while back so may be of interest to you-

Cost question Gas fire V Central heating. — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Thank You, some interesting reading there, especially about blocking the chimney up which is wasting heat . I ll have to experiment a little for a few weeks and see how it go s 

Chrysalis

[Deleted User] said:

ioealshk said:

I highly doubt Russia will turn the gas off, it's the EU that will shoot itself in the foot and bring us down in the process. Hopefully by autumn the Germany will come to its senses, but who knows. In theory we shouldn't be affected (because THIRTEEN PERCENT), but it seems the UK producers rise their prices accordingly for the domestic market, so we are all in the same pot.

‘Come to its senses’. Wow.

Germany, along with most of the World, is standing up against at aggressor Nation which has invaded a democratic country: Ukraine. The UK Government is taking a leadership role in getting European nations to reduce their dependence on Russian gas and oil. 

Are you saying that the World should just leave Ukraine to its fate - that is, we should adopt a policy of appeasement - and that we should all start buying Russian oil again just because World gas prices are affecting your energy bill? 

Democracy, the right for people to choose, is something that millions in this Country and others have given their lives for over 2 World Wars. 

By the way, there is no ‘theory’ about it. We live in a global World and the oil price is set on a global basis whether we import Russian gas or not.

Seriously, there are some things worth standing up for - even if it comes at a financial cost.

Not everyone will agree with you however.

Its easier to say eat the cost if you have a nice income/assets to fall back on to absorb them, its like a "oh well".

But if it starves your family then things are different.

I seen e.g, in an interview on Boris, when he was asked why he can afford to spend billions on weapons for Ukraine but not make sure his own people are fed, a question I felt to be very reasonable.

We are barely supporting Ukraine, the war because of this will be prolonged with territory lost anyway.  Not sure what I think the best way to go on Ukraine, really they should have been fast tracked into Nato the moment Russia showed signs of invading, then at that point Nato would have been the deterrence. 

barker77

ioealshk said:

Dolor said:

Are you saying that the World should just leave Ukraine to its fate - that is, we should adopt a policy of appeasement - and that we should all start buying Russian oil again just because World gas prices are affecting your energy bill? 

I'm just saying that our government pretends to care more about the Ukrainians than own people. I'm not going to debate whether this is right or wrong, just stating the fact. There is only so much I can afford to pay to support their fruitless efforts.

Just a year ago we were told to stay indoors to protect a hypothetical nan; and all of a sudden we are told that we must protect the Ukrainian babushkas while our own pensioners freeze to death.

There are many moral caveats to this of course, but when you have a choice between not starving and freezing yourself to death and paying more money into a billionaire's pocket to supposedly teach Russia a lesson, it's an easy choice.

When I cook my supper on bits of an old pallet thrown in a pit in my garden in an attempt to save a few kWs, all the world problems from civil wars to ecological crisis are the least of my worries. It's not about right or wrong, not about selfishness, it's a matter of survival.

@BUFF I apologise, I swear we were getting 13% of gas from Russia, I can see that it is indeed 3-4%. Even less of an excuse for the Westminster not to have constructed a self-sufficient energy supply system that isn't dependent on the external factors. However, the official reason for reducing the gas supply to Europe was the turbine, and neither Germany nor Canada have disputed that: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/10/canada-exempts-russian-gas-turbine-from-sanctions-amid-europe-energy-crisis

“ When I cook my supper on bits of an old pallet thrown in a pit in my garden in an attempt to save a few kWs, all the world problems from civil wars to ecological crisis are the least of my worries.”

When you are being murdered in an invasion of your country that’s life and death. Not a rolling electric cut off …. We really are lucky here compared. 

Mstty

The question is how much do the wider public care?

When their energy bills are potentially doubling between now and Jan 2023 at what point do they not care about what is going on 3000 miles away.

The public are a fickle bunch and when it starts to severely impact their lives. On the back of covid, inflation, energy crisis etc many will talk a good game about Ukraine but what's important to them is what's not in their wallet/purse/bank.