Mis-sold an item from M&S but gift card was used

eskbanker

Olinda99 said:

although their company policy does not normally allow a gift card to be converted to cash, given what happened would they do this. Do they have to? No. Will they - who knows, but it's the only avenue the OP has left other than swapping the card to smaller values etc. And, if they do, it is not money laundering.

Wasn't aware that anyone had said, or suggested, that it was - there's a big difference between 'money laundering' and 'conducting activities that happen to fall foul of legislation or regulations (or even policies) designed to prevent money laundering'!

user1977

Alderbank said:

The price paid to M&S by the rewards company will be a commercial secret, but just out of interest did the OP ever tell us what they actually paid for that giftcard with a face value of £650?

Affinity scheme offers are usually quite attractive.

My work scheme gives 7% cashback for M&S, so it would be the equivalent to a £45.50 discount.

user1977

born_again said:

If they were genuinely concerned about money-laundering, they wouldn't accept cash as payment in the first place.

The reasons for them not giving out cash refunds for card transactions are I think more to do with the commission charged to them by the card issuers, and not wanting to be seen to be giving "free" cash advances via credit cards.

AML does not just cover cash payments. It is about taking funds from dubious source & making them appear to be from a legitimate source.

So for example a bribe via a banking payment, can be moved through several bank accounts to make it appear to be a genuine payment for services. 

Sure, but if they were concerned about money-laundering, surely they'd start by asking questions about wads of cash being handed over, before they move on to traceable banking payments?

jon81uk

user1977 said:

born_again said:

If they were genuinely concerned about money-laundering, they wouldn't accept cash as payment in the first place.

The reasons for them not giving out cash refunds for card transactions are I think more to do with the commission charged to them by the card issuers, and not wanting to be seen to be giving "free" cash advances via credit cards.

AML does not just cover cash payments. It is about taking funds from dubious source & making them appear to be from a legitimate source.

So for example a bribe via a banking payment, can be moved through several bank accounts to make it appear to be a genuine payment for services. 

Sure, but if they were concerned about money-laundering, surely they'd start by asking questions about wads of cash being handed over, before they move on to traceable banking payments?

If the wad of money is used to purchase goods, it is not money laundering as the goods are now (usually) worth less than the purchase price. But if you were to get the goods refunded again to a different method than you paid with, it could provide a method.

maisie_cat

Deltadia said:

Thanks peeps. After reading through all your input and advises it seems I am really only left with relying on the goodwill of M&S...which I dont think I will get from how their agents were...

About the giftcard, I do own reloadable giftcard for M&S, which I typically used for small grocery shopping. And this was used to pay the initial order but M&S refunded me with new e-gift card (a single e-gift card of 650....). I use reloadable card as with e-gift cards, you tend to have multiple cards with less than a pound left and you get disorganised quickly. Whereas with reloadable, you just have one card to manage

@Alderbank The corporate reward site is managed by Rewards Gateway. And you assume right, most of the gift cards/vouchers on the site are non-refundable once the voucher is opened. And with the case of reloadable cards, they state they cannot provide a refund. On the M&S gift card site, however, I saw below statement. So I wanted to see if there are any grounds since it was M&S error on their site.

Gift cards cannot be returned or refunded, except in accordance with legal rights. 

@Manxman_in_exile it was quite a harsh lesson because of the timing but I will think more about the consequence of the order not being fulfilled when using gift cards. I certainly did not have any imagination that I would be put in this situation. I will most likely to pursue the avenue of selling the giftcard to friends and family but even that will be a hassle as M&S refunded it into single card.....

@powerful_Rogue I appreciate your bluntness as some facts wont change no matter how you sugar coat it. But I would appreciate if you could dish out your blunt advises whilst reading what I wrote. There isnt really an alternative to spend in M&S for me. I tried looking for alternative items to spend this afternoon, I need some curtain rails/rods but they only do curtains not rods and other big furnitures I have already placed the order elsewhere. So I am stuck with 650 gift card which I will now need to chase them to split into different denominations or spend it in small groceries which will take absolutely ages to spend as I am moving from London to Farnborough where there is no M&S except for one in BP ..  

There a giant M&S in Camberley (meadows?) just over the M3 from Farnborough

Alderbank

The OP said there is nothing else which M&S sells which they want to buy.

I accept that the catalogue misprint was unforeseen but the strategy of all the eggs in one basket was always risky.
Sofas are not mass produced, they are hand made one at a time to order (in terms of fabric, etc.) Labour problems and materials supply have been terrible in the last few years.
Talk to any group of people and they will know of someone who had tried to buy a sofa from Next, DFS etc. only to be told 'Sorry but we are out of stock of that model and don't know whether or when we will be able to get more' or 'Sorry but the manufacturer has now discontinued that model.'

born_again

From OP I'm wonder just what "a sofa that is 2 sizes smaller than advertised" exactly is? 

A 3 seater than is just a chair? A 5 seater than is on a 3 seater?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Alderbank said:

Well spotted, the_lunatic_is_in_my_head.
I meant, but did not make clear, that they say the giftcard is not refundable from the issuer (M&S in this case) meaning you can't buy a giftcard at a discount then claim a cash refund from M&S for the face value

One rewards site I can see online includes the following in T&Cs:

 

Gift Cards and Vouchers (“Vouchers”)

4.3 Return of Vouchers. You have a legal right to change your mind within 14 days of receiving the Vouchers. Provided that you have not used some or all of the value of the Vouchers within that 14 day period, you may contact us to request a refund for the Vouchers. We may require you to return the Vouchers to us.

I think the above form of words, if sent to you with the giftcard, would be sufficient for the Consumer Contract Regulations 2013.

We don't know which rewards site the OP used.

OP, which rewards site did you buy the M&S giftcard from? What refund information did they send with the card?

Thanks @Alderbank

Nice to see the acknowledgement of the right to cancel on such items. 

I don't think they can refuse the right to change your mind due to using the voucher but instead apply the rules of diminished value, although the OP may not have purchased from a place with the same terms and the thread seems to have enough excitement without going down that road   

dil1976

I wonder what the OP would of done if after they had purchased said gift card the item was sold out and no longer available, unfortunately that's the risk when you try and buy a item at a discounted price. 

sheramber

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Alderbank said:

Well spotted, the_lunatic_is_in_my_head.
I meant, but did not make clear, that they say the giftcard is not refundable from the issuer (M&S in this case) meaning you can't buy a giftcard at a discount then claim a cash refund from M&S for the face value

One rewards site I can see online includes the following in T&Cs:

 

Gift Cards and Vouchers (“Vouchers”)

4.3 Return of Vouchers. You have a legal right to change your mind within 14 days of receiving the Vouchers. Provided that you have not used some or all of the value of the Vouchers within that 14 day period, you may contact us to request a refund for the Vouchers. We may require you to return the Vouchers to us.

I think the above form of words, if sent to you with the giftcard, would be sufficient for the Consumer Contract Regulations 2013.

We don't know which rewards site the OP used.

OP, which rewards site did you buy the M&S giftcard from? What refund information did they send with the card?

Thanks @Alderbank

Nice to see the acknowledgement of the right to cancel on such items. 

I don't think they can refuse the right to change your mind due to using the voucher but instead apply the rules of diminished value, although the OP may not have purchased from a place with the same terms and the thread seems to have enough excitement without going down that road   

OP has already said 


@Alderbank The corporate reward site is managed by Rewards Gateway. And you assume right, most of the gift cards/vouchers on the site are non-refundable once the voucher is opened. And with the case of reloadable cards, they state they cannot provide a refund.