Mis-sold an item from M&S but gift card was used

Aylesbury_Duck

Deltadia said:

Thanks for sharing that @AmberDepp . I didnt think there was a legal requirement as I had a refund from other retailer to a card. Customer services agent was claiming legal requirement. But I understand that it's their business process and T&C.

After reading all the inputs and some time of reflecting, I should be careful of using large sum of gift card in the future. I still feel hard done by M&S when it was their fault to begin with. Refunding of the gift card should be something they should be able to offer as a good will as they wont be making any loss by it either whilst having a content customer.. 

Anyways thanks for all the inputs, I have learnt fair bit from this!

This is wrong.  M&S made a mistake on their website, corrected it and refunded you as soon as it was apparent.  They did refund the gift card, not out of goodwill, but by a proper and correct process set out in their terms.  I fail to see what else they can do that they haven't already done.  I can see why you feel hard done by, but your expectations of M&S are unreasonable.  The problem here is the lack of flexibility of your chosen payment method.  If you wanted the ability to buy items and get 'cash' refunds with total flexibility as to how you use that refund, there were other methods of payment available.  You traded that flexibility for a discount.  It didn't pay off this time.

jon81uk

AmberDepp said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Deltadia said:

comeandgo said:

M & S have to refund in the same way payment was taken.  

Yeah, I've accepted this as M&S customer service agent was saying it was illegal to refund to other payment method (although I could not find a legal reference).

My question is more on the refunding of the gift card as I specifically bought the gift card to buy the item as it was advertised in M&S website. However M&S advertised wrong information and have consequencently missold  an item. 

I shared the background of the order placed as the gift cards are typically non-refundable and so I am trying to understand if there is a way to get the refund of the giftcard. To add, I have cancelled the order as their corrected specification no longer fit my needs and have received the refund in the new e-giftcard, which is quite annoying as I used a reloadable giftcard yet they created a new e-giftcard instead of refunding the amount in the said giftcard 

It will fall under Anti Money Laundering legislation.

You have no recourse to a refund of the gift cards. You purchased gifts cards and received gift cards. The fact they were specfically for a certain item is of no interest to the company supplying the gift cards.

It won't fall under AML.

M&S are not subject to AML as they're not a financial institution, bookmaker, estate agent, used car dealer or other that falls under AML regulations.

I do wish people would stop peddling this twaddle that EVERYONE is responsible under AML regulations.

They are not.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/692/regulation/8/made#:~:text=(2) The persons,casinos.

Application

8.—(1) Parts 1 to 6 and 8 to 11 apply to the persons (“relevant persons”) acting in the course of business carried on by them in the United Kingdom, who—

(a)are listed in paragraph (2); and

(b)do not come within the exclusions set out in regulation 15.

(2) The persons listed in this paragraph are—

(a)credit institutions;

(b)financial institutions;

(c)auditors, insolvency practitioners, external accountants and tax advisers;

(d)independent legal professionals;

(e)trust or company service providers;

(f)estate agents;

(g)high value dealers;

(h)casinos.

I don't see retailers on that list, do you?

Although not specified in either the anti money laundering regulations or the proceeds of crime act I think most retailers have a general policy of refunding back to the original payment method because they are concerned about getting caught up in it, particularly with large amounts. Demanding a reasobable sum of money to be returned as cash does sound like money laundering.

This very old post (found when googling) sums it up quite well cash refund when paid by card? (maplin) - Page 2 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

user1977

jon81uk said:

AmberDepp said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Deltadia said:

comeandgo said:

M & S have to refund in the same way payment was taken.  

Yeah, I've accepted this as M&S customer service agent was saying it was illegal to refund to other payment method (although I could not find a legal reference).

My question is more on the refunding of the gift card as I specifically bought the gift card to buy the item as it was advertised in M&S website. However M&S advertised wrong information and have consequencently missold  an item. 

I shared the background of the order placed as the gift cards are typically non-refundable and so I am trying to understand if there is a way to get the refund of the giftcard. To add, I have cancelled the order as their corrected specification no longer fit my needs and have received the refund in the new e-giftcard, which is quite annoying as I used a reloadable giftcard yet they created a new e-giftcard instead of refunding the amount in the said giftcard 

It will fall under Anti Money Laundering legislation.

You have no recourse to a refund of the gift cards. You purchased gifts cards and received gift cards. The fact they were specfically for a certain item is of no interest to the company supplying the gift cards.

It won't fall under AML.

M&S are not subject to AML as they're not a financial institution, bookmaker, estate agent, used car dealer or other that falls under AML regulations.

I do wish people would stop peddling this twaddle that EVERYONE is responsible under AML regulations.

They are not.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/692/regulation/8/made#:~:text=(2) The persons,casinos.

Application

8.—(1) Parts 1 to 6 and 8 to 11 apply to the persons (“relevant persons”) acting in the course of business carried on by them in the United Kingdom, who—

(a)are listed in paragraph (2); and

(b)do not come within the exclusions set out in regulation 15.

(2) The persons listed in this paragraph are—

(a)credit institutions;

(b)financial institutions;

(c)auditors, insolvency practitioners, external accountants and tax advisers;

(d)independent legal professionals;

(e)trust or company service providers;

(f)estate agents;

(g)high value dealers;

(h)casinos.

I don't see retailers on that list, do you?

Although not specified in either the anti money laundering regulations or the proceeds of crime act I think most retailers have a general policy of refunding back to the original payment method because they are concerned about getting caught up in it, particularly with large amounts. Demanding a reasobable sum of money to be returned as cash does sound like money laundering.

This very old post (found when googling) sums it up quite well cash refund when paid by card? (maplin) - Page 2 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

If they were genuinely concerned about money-laundering, they wouldn't accept cash as payment in the first place.

The reasons for them not giving out cash refunds for card transactions are I think more to do with the commission charged to them by the card issuers, and not wanting to be seen to be giving "free" cash advances via credit cards.

Olinda99

This thread seems to be getting wierder and more heated with every post.

1. of course M&S have complied with their legal requirements by immediately refunding once the mistake had been pointed out to them

2. of course they process this refund to the original payment method ie the gift card - his is (and always has been) standard industry practice.

3. of course the OP, having received a refund by the method paid, has no further legal rights or indeed reason to expect M&S to do more.

4. despite 1,2 and 3, it is worth complaining to M&S that there have been other consequences to their mistake that their refund does not remedy, and although their company policy does not normally allow a gift card to be converted to cash, given what happened would they do this. Do they have to? No. Will they - who knows, but it's the only avenue the OP has left other than swapping the card to smaller values etc. And, if they do, it is not money laundering.

k12479

Deltadia said:

Refunding of the gift card should be something they should be able to offer as a good will as they wont be making any loss by it either whilst having a content customer.. 

Yes they would be making a loss, as pointed out earlier (below), M&S would have received less than face value for the voucher so it'd cost them that difference (plus a tiny amount in admin/transaction/etc. costs, doubled).

Alderbank said:

The rewards site buys large blocks of giftcards from retailers like Argos and M&S at a discount of about 7%. The benefit to the retailer is that they immediately get the discounted payment with no risk of claimbacks and with the small possibility that a giftcard will expire unused.?

Olinda99

k12479 said:

Deltadia said:

Refunding of the gift card should be something they should be able to offer as a good will as they wont be making any loss by it either whilst having a content customer.. 

Yes they would be making a loss, as pointed out earlier (below), M&S would have received less than face value for the voucher so it'd cost them that difference (plus a tiny amount in admin/transaction/etc. costs, doubled).

Alderbank said:

The rewards site buys large blocks of giftcards from retailers like Argos and M&S at a discount of about 7%. The benefit to the retailer is that they immediately get the discounted payment with no risk of claimbacks and with the small possibility that a giftcard will expire unused.?

You don't know how much M&S received originally for the voucher

Just because the OP got it at a discount (as part of some kind of corporate reward scheme) doesn't mean M&S were not paid the full value.

born_again

If they were genuinely concerned about money-laundering, they wouldn't accept cash as payment in the first place.

The reasons for them not giving out cash refunds for card transactions are I think more to do with the commission charged to them by the card issuers, and not wanting to be seen to be giving "free" cash advances via credit cards.

AML does not just cover cash payments. It is about taking funds from dubious source & making them appear to be from a legitimate source.

So for example a bribe via a banking payment, can be moved through several bank accounts to make it appear to be a genuine payment for services. 

k12479

Olinda99 said:

k12479 said:

Deltadia said:

Refunding of the gift card should be something they should be able to offer as a good will as they wont be making any loss by it either whilst having a content customer.. 

Yes they would be making a loss, as pointed out earlier (below), M&S would have received less than face value for the voucher so it'd cost them that difference (plus a tiny amount in admin/transaction/etc. costs, doubled).

Alderbank said:

The rewards site buys large blocks of giftcards from retailers like Argos and M&S at a discount of about 7%. The benefit to the retailer is that they immediately get the discounted payment with no risk of claimbacks and with the small possibility that a giftcard will expire unused.?

You don't know how much M&S received originally for the voucher

Just because the OP got it at a discount (as part of some kind of corporate reward scheme) doesn't mean M&S were not paid the full value.

So buy gift vouchers at face value and sell them at less than face value. A novel business model.

Alderbank

The price paid to M&S by the rewards company will be a commercial secret, but just out of interest did the OP ever tell us what they actually paid for that giftcard with a face value of £650?

Affinity scheme offers are usually quite attractive.

sheramber

Since the OP bought them at less than face value why should he get the full £650 in cash.

If that was the case then it would be quite a business model to buy the cards at a reduced value and exchange for the face value in cash.