Store won't release my Click and Collect goods

simontwiggers

I have ordered several packages from several vendors and requested them to be sent as Click and Collect to a particular convenience store.  The goods have arrived at the store but the Store has an issue with computer system which they use to manage their Click and Collect parcels.  They are refusing to release my goods to me until it is fixed. but it is already three days since they were delivered and if I don't get them soon then it will be too late for the event that I purchased them for in the first place.

Anyone know what the store's obligation are here? Do I have a right to insist that they hand them over? 

powerful_Rogue

simontwiggers said:

I have ordered several packages from several vendors and requested them to be sent as Click and Collect to a particular convenience store.  The goods have arrived at the store but the Store has an issue with computer system which they use to manage their Click and Collect parcels.  They are refusing to release my goods to me until it is fixed. but it is already three days since they were delivered and if I don't get them soon then it will be too late for the event that I purchased them for in the first place.

Anyone know what the store's obligation are here? Do I have a right to insist that they hand them over? 

The store isn't going to release the goods if they can't mark them as such on the system. Otherwise this is open for all kinds of fraud. No rights to insist they hand them over.

shiraz99

Speak to the seller, although I'd imagine they'll simply say they've fulfilled their obligation to deliver to your request.

simontwiggers

powerful_Rogue said:

The store isn't going to release the goods if they can't mark them as such on the system. Otherwise this is open for all kinds of fraud. No rights to insist they hand them over.

I can prove who I am and the goods are clearly addressed to me. No risk for fraud.  It's simply a 'Computer says "no"'. situation.  What I want to establish is if I can argue that the goods belong to me (they certainly don't belong to the store) and therefore I have a right to reasonable enjoyment of them. 

powerful_Rogue

simontwiggers said:

powerful_Rogue said:

The store isn't going to release the goods if they can't mark them as such on the system. Otherwise this is open for all kinds of fraud. No rights to insist they hand them over.

I can prove who I am and the goods are clearly addressed to me. No risk for fraud.  It's simply a 'Computer says "no"'. situation.  What I want to establish is if I can argue that the goods belong to me (they certainly don't belong to the store) and therefore I have a right to reasonable enjoyment of them. 

But if the store can't update the system, or input a code allowing them to be released, someone could say they never received the goods.

In fact, the goods remain at the traders risk until they come into your physical possession.

Where are you getting this right to reasonable enjoyment from?

Alderbank

simontwiggers said:

powerful_Rogue said:

The store isn't going to release the goods if they can't mark them as such on the system. Otherwise this is open for all kinds of fraud. No rights to insist they hand them over.

I can prove who I am and the goods are clearly addressed to me. No risk for fraud.  It's simply a 'Computer says "no"'. situation.  What I want to establish is if I can argue that the goods belong to me (they certainly don't belong to the store) and therefore I have a right to reasonable enjoyment of them. 

Look at it from the seller's angle.
There have been many cases where the convenience store has kept the goods but falsely claimed that the rightful owner came in, showed ID and took his property. Plenty of risk of fraud there. This led to sellers setting up strict protocols with convenience stores. tl/dr - sellers won't just accept the convenience store's word any more.

The usual contract is that the goods become yours and your responsibility when they are delivered into your hands or into the hands of someone you have authorised to receive them on your behalf. Until then they belong to the seller. 
Presumably you had the option to choose whether to have the goods delivered to your address, to someone else's address or to a limited number of convenience stores or other third parties offered by the seller?
Delivered to you or your choice of neighbour is straightforward - they are yours and your responsibility on delivery. I would argue that the convenience store is the seller's agent and the goods do not pass to you till you collect them. However the seller might maintain that you have nominated the convenience store as your chosen address, they delivered in good time to your authorised representative as you requested and have thereby discharged their duty.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

OP did the trader's offer Click and Collect or is these a separate thing you use?

If they offered it then go back to them to ask what they intend to do as the goods remain at their risk until in your personal possession. 

simontwiggers

Alderbank said:

The usual contract is that the goods become yours and your responsibility when they are delivered into your hands or into the hands of someone you have authorised to receive them on your behalf. Until then they belong to the seller. 
Presumably you had the option to choose whether to have the goods delivered to your address, to someone else's address or to a limited number of convenience stores or other third parties offered by the seller?
Delivered to you or your choice of neighbour is straightforward - they are yours and your responsibility on delivery. I would argue that the convenience store is the seller's agent and the goods do not pass to you till you collect them. However the seller might maintain that you have nominated the convenience store as your chosen address, they delivered in good time to your authorised representative as you requested and have thereby discharged their duty.

Well does any one know which is true? They can't both be true.  If not mine until in my hands then it is the seller's responsibility to find a solution or I can refuse the delivery and claim a full refund.  However, if the seller discharges responsibility when the goods arrive at the store, then the goods belong to me and I ought to be able to take possession.

Also the Store - as an agent, has a responsibility to discharge its service to the customer (whether this is the buyer or the seller). Computer issues are not a reasonable excuse in my view. I realise that the store has to ensure that the goods are delivered to the correct person, but there are alternative (arguably better) ways of doing it without relying on a computer. I have id, I am willing to sign a letter or be photographed taking possession etc, as proof, for example. We all know that computers are not infallible and contingencies ought to be in place for when they fail.

But all of this just speculation. I just need someone to define what my rights are in order to try to leverage some action from the store.So which is true? If the goods are not mine until in my hands then it is the seller's responsibility to find a solution or I can refuse the delivery and claim a full refund.  However, if the seller discharges responsibility when the goods arrive at the store, then the goods belong to me and I ought to be able to take possession. What does the law say? 

k3lvc

simontwiggers said:

 What does the law say? 

It depends what your contract says when you ordered the goods and agreed to the delivery service. The retailer(s) will have agreed a process with the delivery service supplier(s) and there'll be no option to vary that however loud you shout/angry you get.

Frustrating though it is unless time was of the essence in your agreement when you purchased (and no retailer in their right mind is going to accept an order on that basis in the current climate) then you're playing a waiting game

A more positive suggestion is to cancel the current orders and either place new ones for delivery to an alternate address or buy the goods somewhere else

Ergates

simontwiggers said:

Alderbank said:

The usual contract is that the goods become yours and your responsibility when they are delivered into your hands or into the hands of someone you have authorised to receive them on your behalf. Until then they belong to the seller. 
Presumably you had the option to choose whether to have the goods delivered to your address, to someone else's address or to a limited number of convenience stores or other third parties offered by the seller?
Delivered to you or your choice of neighbour is straightforward - they are yours and your responsibility on delivery. I would argue that the convenience store is the seller's agent and the goods do not pass to you till you collect them. However the seller might maintain that you have nominated the convenience store as your chosen address, they delivered in good time to your authorised representative as you requested and have thereby discharged their duty.

Well does any one know which is true? They can't both be true.  If not mine until in my hands then it is the seller's responsibility to find a solution or I can refuse the delivery and claim a full refund.  However, if the seller discharges responsibility when the goods arrive at the store, then the goods belong to me and I ought to be able to take possession.

Also the Store - as an agent, has a responsibility to discharge its service to the customer (whether this is the buyer or the seller). Computer issues are not a reasonable excuse in my view. I realise that the store has to ensure that the goods are delivered to the correct person, but there are alternative (arguably better) ways of doing it without relying on a computer. I have id, I am willing to sign a letter or be photographed taking possession etc, as proof, for example. We all know that computers are not infallible and contingencies ought to be in place for when they fail.

But all of this just speculation. I just need someone to define what my rights are in order to try to leverage some action from the store.So which is true? If the goods are not mine until in my hands then it is the seller's responsibility to find a solution or I can refuse the delivery and claim a full refund.  However, if the seller discharges responsibility when the goods arrive at the store, then the goods belong to me and I ought to be able to take possession. What does the law say? 

As the_lunatic_is_in_my_head says - it depends on if the option to collect from this store was something the seller offered, or if it's something you asked for.

If it's something the seller offer then the store is acting as an agent for the seller, and the seller retains responsibility until you have the goods - the same as if they'd contracted a courier to deliver the goods to your home.

If it's something you requested then the store would be acting as a nominated party on your behalf - and the responsibility would pass to you once they arrived at the store - the same as if you'd asked for the goods to be delivered to your neighbour. 

From what you've said - it sounds like the former rather than the latter, but only you will know for sure.  The fact that the store has a process they must follow before handing over the goods shows this - if the goods were your responsibility then the seller wouldn't need such a process.

A technical break down in part of the delivery chain would be a valid reason why they store weren't able to fulfil their duties - in the same way that a couriers van breaking down would be a valid reason for them not to have delivered on time.  However, this doesn't change your consumer rights - you can refuse delivery (or just return them as soon as you get hold of them).

simontwiggers

I think I have what I need. Many thanks to all those who responded.