Canceling building work

nowhereboy

Like I say, I understand the builders situation and I appreciate its not ideal. Unfortunately I’ve landed in a unexpected tough spot financially and as I hope you could appreciate my main concern is my family. 

This builder is very busy, very well off and has multiple projects on the go. He also said this door is a popular one and its a generic fit so I’m sure it could be reused. He is asking for £600, however the total job was 1.2K. 

In reality he will fill our cancelation and could more than likely reuse the door. The detriment to him is not going to be £600. Where as I’ll be walking away £600 down and with a door that I no longer have a use for. 

Im thinking of offering £120, 10% of the total bill to settle the matter. 

I wouldn’t normally quibble over such situations but given a large decline in my wage and the cost of living Im left with little choice. 

Undervalued

nowhereboy said:

Like I say, I understand the builders situation and I appreciate its not ideal. Unfortunately I’ve landed in a unexpected tough spot financially and as I hope you could appreciate my main concern is my family. 

This builder is very busy, very well off and has multiple projects on the go. He also said this door is a popular one and its a generic fit so I’m sure it could be reused. He is asking for £600, however the total job was 1.2K. 

In reality he will fill our cancelation and could more than likely reuse the door. The detriment to him is not going to be £600. Where as I’ll be walking away £600 down and with a door that I no longer have a use for. 

Im thinking of offering £120, 10% of the total bill to settle the matter. 

I wouldn’t normally quibble over such situations but given a large decline in my wage and the cost of living Im left with little choice. 

I'm sorry but your reduced circumstances are not the builder's problem. Equally it is of no relevance that he is "very well off" (if indeed that is even true).

As I said earlier he has a duty to make reasonable efforts to minimise his losses (but can factor in a reasonable admin charge in doing so). 

So, for example, if he can return the door to his supplier, albeit at a restocking fee, he should do so and can then only look to you for fee and not the whole cost of the door. Obviously if you pay for the door in full you are entitled to have it. If, despite reasonable efforts, he can't find other work that day he may be able to look to you for his lost profit but probably not the full daily rate.

Ultimately only a court can decide what is reasonable. I suspect it would need to be more than 10% but there is no harm in offering that as a starting point.

Alderbank

nowhereboy said:

This builder is very busy, very well off and has multiple projects on the go. He also said this door is a popular one and its a generic fit so I’m sure it could be reused. 

No such thing as a generic fit. Makers for domestic garages offer a range of heights from 2m high to motorhome height and widths from narrow singles to wide doubles in 100mm increments.

Modern housing estates do have dozens of identical garage doors but that does not mean that door is 'popular' in the sense that people want to buy them. Where I live the trend is to convert integral garages to living rooms so most estates have at least one unwanted 'popular' garage door left out on the drive waiting for the 'scrappie'.
The few times when people fit a replacement garage door they never choose a 'popular' one, it's always some kind of wood effect Georgian or Elizabethan style.

born_again

If builder has bought door, then OP could simply pay for the door & have it ready for when they can afford to have it fitted. 

nowhereboy

I know my circumstance's are not his problem, nor does his financial position have any relevance . I was giving the information for context as some people started to comment on my character etc. 

I’ll start negotiations with the builder today and see if we can reach a compromise. I’m not prepared to pay £600 for a door I don’t need when he could clearly return it. If thats his only offer I’ll have to see it out in court. 

Aylesbury_Duck

nowhereboy said:

I know my circumstance's are not his problem, nor does his financial position have any relevance . I was giving the information for context as some people started to comment on my character etc. 

I’ll start negotiations with the builder today and see if we can reach a compromise. I’m not prepared to pay £600 for a door I don’t need when he could clearly return it. If thats his only offer I’ll have to see it out in court. 

Can he, though?  Do you know that for sure?  If he can, for no cost, then the only thing he would be entitled to claim from you is petrol money and a bit of admin time to do so.

If the door is so generic and popular, why don't you pay what you owe, take the door and sell it yourself?  I mean that flippantly of course, but it illustrates the point - that you expect him to do, for nothing, what you're not prepared to do, which is to take the cashflow and storage risk of a £600 door you might not be able to sell on.

If he can return the door for no charge, or a re-stocking fee, then your offer of £120 is probably a fair and reasonable one which he'll accept.  If it does go to court, the fact you made a reasonable offer to settle would be seen as a good thing.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

nowhereboy said:

Like I say, I understand the builders situation and I appreciate its not ideal. Unfortunately I’ve landed in a unexpected tough spot financially and as I hope you could appreciate my main concern is my family. 

This builder is very busy, very well off and has multiple projects on the go. He also said this door is a popular one and its a generic fit so I’m sure it could be reused. He is asking for £600, however the total job was 1.2K. 

In reality he will fill our cancelation and could more than likely reuse the door. The detriment to him is not going to be £600. Where as I’ll be walking away £600 down and with a door that I no longer have a use for. 

Im thinking of offering £120, 10% of the total bill to settle the matter. 

I wouldn’t normally quibble over such situations but given a large decline in my wage and the cost of living Im left with little choice. 

OP I assume you have the trader's address?

If so pop a letter over to them with the CMA link and the quote paragraph 

Fairness is more likely to be achieved for such a term by ensuring that it does not go beyond the ordinary legal position. Generally, where the contract comes to an end because of the fault of the consumer, the business is entitled to hold back from any refund of prepayments what is likely to be reasonably needed to cover either its net costs or the net loss of profit resulting directly from the default (see paragraph 5.14.3 below on the need to avoid double counting). There is no entitlement to any sum that could reasonably be saved by, for example, finding another customer.

State you believe the trader can easily resell the door as they said it was a popular off the shelf model and offer £x amount to cover the "admin", or whatever you want to call it, costs they have suffered. 

I'd also offer an alterative to cover any cancellation/return costs for the door order if that is an option with the trader's supplier. 

You have nothing to lose other than the cost of a stamp as the "bill" can't increase by making an offer such as this and as above by trying to engage on the matter and making offer would be viewed as reasonable  

macman

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

user1977 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

macman said:

nowhereboy said:

Thanks. 

In my line of work we’d be in breach of the contract if we didn’t make the customer aware of the cancelation rights or the fact they were entering into a contract. We’d also secure a deposit and issue documents. 

Had I been made aware of any of this stuff prior I’d have known where I stood in advance. 

Surely the fact I didn’t know we had a contract, along with the fact we have not paid a deposit counts for something?

I understand its rubbish to cancel a couple of weeks prior, I get it. That said everyone has to do what they have to do to get by at the moment. 

If I go to the corner shop and ask for a newspaper, then I'm forming a contract at that point, but I don't expect the shopkeeper to present me with a set of terms and conditions to sign before he'll sell me the paper.

That's because "day to day" transactions that take place there and then aren't covered by the information requirements of the legislation  

Think you're talking at cross-purposes here - macman was just pointing out the general requirements for the formation of a contract (as the OP doesn't seem to believe there can be any sort of contract), whereas you're talking about the rights to cancel a contract.

I got macman's point but the comparison made was apples and oranges  

It's not just the right to cancel, it's also the information requirements which affect whether the consumer is bound to the contract to begin with plus the fairness of terms (although there doesn't appear to be any terms so I assume it falls back to basic contract law). 

I think your assumption is absolutely correct. The problem is that the OP does not accept that a contract was ever formed, because 'there was nothing in writing' , despite saying in the same sentence that it was agreed on WhatsApp, so clearly not just verbal.
Now he's saying that, even if a contract was formed, (I summarise) 'it's all unfair, I can't afford it, the builder is loaded, and that £600 is far too much to pay for the door anyway.' None of which will stand a hope in hell of being accepted by a judge.
The simplest resolution is for the builder to provide a receipt or other evidence that the door has been ordered, and what it cost. The OP should pay that and take receipt of the door, to be fitted when he can once again afford it.
If it goes to small claims I would bet that his bill will rise to over £1K once the builder claims his costs and a day off work. £120 is a derisory offer, it probably barely covers the time spent travelling to the site, surveying, measuring up and doing the quote.
The fact that the builder has responded to the cancellation in an unduly aggressive manner does him no credit, but doesn't mean that his claim is unreasonable.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

macman said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

user1977 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

macman said:

nowhereboy said:

Thanks. 

In my line of work we’d be in breach of the contract if we didn’t make the customer aware of the cancelation rights or the fact they were entering into a contract. We’d also secure a deposit and issue documents. 

Had I been made aware of any of this stuff prior I’d have known where I stood in advance. 

Surely the fact I didn’t know we had a contract, along with the fact we have not paid a deposit counts for something?

I understand its rubbish to cancel a couple of weeks prior, I get it. That said everyone has to do what they have to do to get by at the moment. 

If I go to the corner shop and ask for a newspaper, then I'm forming a contract at that point, but I don't expect the shopkeeper to present me with a set of terms and conditions to sign before he'll sell me the paper.

That's because "day to day" transactions that take place there and then aren't covered by the information requirements of the legislation  

Think you're talking at cross-purposes here - macman was just pointing out the general requirements for the formation of a contract (as the OP doesn't seem to believe there can be any sort of contract), whereas you're talking about the rights to cancel a contract.

I got macman's point but the comparison made was apples and oranges  

It's not just the right to cancel, it's also the information requirements which affect whether the consumer is bound to the contract to begin with plus the fairness of terms (although there doesn't appear to be any terms so I assume it falls back to basic contract law). 

I think your assumption is absolutely correct. The problem is that the OP does not accept that a contract was ever formed, because 'there was nothing in writing' , despite saying in the same sentence that it was agreed on WhatsApp, so clearly not just verbal.
Now he's saying that, even if a contract was formed, (I summarise) 'it's all unfair, I can't afford it, the builder is loaded, and that £600 is far too much to pay for the door anyway.' None of which will stand a hope in hell of being accepted by a judge.
The simplest resolution is for the builder to provide a receipt or other evidence that the door has been ordered, and what it cost. The OP should pay that and take receipt of the door, to be fitted when he can once again afford it.
If it goes to small claims I would bet that his bill will rise to over £1K once the builder claims his costs and a day off work. £120 is a derisory offer, it probably barely covers the time spent travelling to the site, surveying, measuring up and doing the quote.
The fact that the builder has responded to the cancellation in an unduly aggressive manner does him no credit, but doesn't mean that his claim is unreasonable.

We all make mistakes or wrong assumptions, I think the OP acknowledges now they do have a contract  

The bit about OP's reasons doesn't really matter and I don't think the court will be interested in the "drama", the matter of fact position is that the contract has been breached due the consumer's fault and OP should stick this emotionless stance. 

From what I understand costs are very limited in small claims.

It's wort noting the cost of "travelling to the site, surveying, measuring up and doing the quote" are not something the trader can claim, if OP had decline the quote there wouldn't have been a contract but the trader would have still faced those costs regardless. 

I sympathise with the trader but long story short it's actual losses which must be mitigated  

nowhereboy

Yup I now understand we have a contract. 

Im still a bit unclear if it is considered on premise or off premise as I find the legislation open to interpretation. It states if quote left for customer to agree its classed as on premise but goes on to say unless quote accepted immediately its off premise, which it was in our case.   

I’ve read other cases online in which I’ve saw similar disputes about this. 

Given this stuff is crucial to a customers rights, this should be made clear at point of sale in my opinion but that won’t further my case. 

Im a first time home owner, this stuff is all new to me. I feel for the builder but naturally I want to walk away from this with as little damage as possible to my finances. 

Lessons have been learnt, to say the least.