Speed Awareness Course or Points?

gbu_2

My son has had 2 speeding notices within a 2 week period on the same stretch of road where Average Speed cameras are in force.(35mph on 30mph road)

Now the first letter came and he admitted driving the car as you have to do.

However the second letter came whilst was still awaiting the outcome of the first incident.(39mph on 30mph)

Now the first reply has came back offering him a speed awareness course rather then points which he will take.

But because the second enforcement came without him realising he had gotten the first one he's now wondering would they take that into consideration as he hadn't actually had the first warning before the second one arrived?

If he had the first letter and offer of the speed awareness course then obviously he would of been more aware then to commit the second offence.

DanDare999

gbu_2 said:

My son has had 2 speeding notices within a 2 week period on the same stretch of road where Average Speed cameras are in force.(35mph on 30mph road)

Now the first letter came and he admitted driving the car as you have to do.

However the second letter came whilst was still awaiting the outcome of the first incident.(39mph on 30mph)

Now the first reply has came back offering him a speed awareness course rather then points which he will take.

But because the second enforcement came without him realising he had gotten the first one he's now wondering would they take that into consideration as he hadn't actually had the first warning before the second one arrived?

If he had the first letter and offer of the speed awareness course then obviously he would of been more aware then to commit the second offence.

It's simple he does the course for first offence and pays £100 and three points for the second.

Why does he need to be made aware he shouldn't be doing 39 in a 30. His speedo would have been reading well into the 40s at the time?

gbu_2

Why does he need to be made aware he shouldn't be doing 39 in a 30. His speedo would have been reading well into the 40s at the time?

Yes of course but by that logic that means obviously nobody should ever be caught speeding.

But sadly people do, and that's what a warning is there for and the offer of a speed awareness course isn't it?

gbu_2

This from another thread:-

The police will consider the following grounds when assessing your eligibility for the driver awareness course:

• your speed narrowly exceeded the limit and falls within the guidelines set out by the National Police Chief Council (NPCC) up to:
  • 31 mph in a 20 mph area
  • 42 mph in a 30 mph area
  • 53 mph in a 40 mph area
  • 64 mph in a 50 mph area­­
  • 75 mph in a 60 mph area
  • 86 mph in a 70 mph area
• you haven’t already completed a course within three years or are booked on an upcoming course

If he's booked up for the speed awareness course will it still be £100 and 3 points?

Car_54

gbu_2 said:

Why does he need to be made aware he shouldn't be doing 39 in a 30. His speedo would have been reading well into the 40s at the time?

Yes of course but by that logic that means obviously nobody should ever be caught speeding.

But sadly people do, and that's what a warning is there for and the offer of a speed awareness course isn't it?

There are warnings - 30 signs, followed by either street lighting or repeater signs. It appears they didn't work.

DanDare999

gbu_2 said:

Why does he need to be made aware he shouldn't be doing 39 in a 30. His speedo would have been reading well into the 40s at the time?

Yes of course but by that logic that means obviously nobody should ever be caught speeding.

But sadly people do, and that's what a warning is there for and the offer of a speed awareness course isn't it?

Most people take the yellow cameras as a warning. 

gbu_2

DanDare999 said:

gbu_2 said:

Why does he need to be made aware he shouldn't be doing 39 in a 30. His speedo would have been reading well into the 40s at the time?

Yes of course but by that logic that means obviously nobody should ever be caught speeding.

But sadly people do, and that's what a warning is there for and the offer of a speed awareness course isn't it?

Most people take the yellow cameras as a warning. 

Yes ofc but he obviously didn't so that's why im asking if he would still have the £100 and 3 points for the second offence if he's still in the process of taking the speed awareness course seeing as he didn't receive the second one until after he booked the course?

onashoestring

gbu_2 said:

This from another thread:-

The police will consider the following grounds when assessing your eligibility for the driver awareness course:

• your speed narrowly exceeded the limit and falls within the guidelines set out by the National Police Chief Council (NPCC) up to:
  • 31 mph in a 20 mph area
  • 42 mph in a 30 mph area
  • 53 mph in a 40 mph area
  • 64 mph in a 50 mph area­­
  • 75 mph in a 60 mph area
  • 86 mph in a 70 mph area
• you haven’t already completed a course within three years or are booked on an upcoming course

If he's booked up for the speed awareness course will it still be £100 and 3 points?

Not for both offences only for the second one. 

.As quoted above you can’t  repeat the course within 3 years . So if he gets caught speeding again within 3 years , it will be more points each time . 

k3lvc

gbu_2 said:

This from another thread:-

The police will consider the following grounds when assessing your eligibility for the driver awareness course:

• your speed narrowly exceeded the limit and falls within the guidelines set out by the National Police Chief Council (NPCC) up to:
  • 31 mph in a 20 mph area
  • 42 mph in a 30 mph area
  • 53 mph in a 40 mph area
  • 64 mph in a 50 mph area­­
  • 75 mph in a 60 mph area
  • 86 mph in a 70 mph area
• you haven’t already completed a course within three years or are booked on an upcoming course

If he's booked up for the speed awareness course will it still be £100 and 3 points?

Good quoting of my post from a previous post today but you missed out the important bit

Please note: There's no legal entitlement to a course, these are offered at the sole discretion of police, and the courts have no powers over courses. If an offer for a course is made to you, the police can withdraw the offer at any time before the course has been successfully completed.

Given this is the same location (and therefore same force) it's not unknown for a second offence to flag and the offer of a SAC for the initial offence to be rescinded

And @gbu_2 are you seriously suggesting he should be let off on the second offence because he didn't know he'd been caught first time - if so suggest he takes it to court as a defence and let the Magistrate have a laugh

Grey_Critic

gbu_2 said:

Yes ofc but he obviously didn't so that's why im asking if he would still have the £100 and 3 points for the second offence if he's still in the process of taking the speed awareness course seeing as he didn't receive the second one until after he booked the course?

Two Offences - Two Penalties (they do not do two for one offers)

Lucky him otherwise he would have TWO endorsements and as a young driver what would that do to his insurance?

I know we have discussions about just how fast people should drive under the speed limit but he really does need to slow down.

Could be that you will need to ask what kind of bike he should buy if not.

TooManyPoints

Given this is the same location (and therefore same force) it's not unknown for a second offence to flag and the offer of a SAC for the initial offence to be rescinded

Really? I have never known such an occurrence. In fact it could be argued that it is an abuse of process. Whilst there is no entitlement to a course, once one is offered, along with the promise that no other action (either out-of-court or prosecution) would take place provided the course was paid for and taken in the required timescale, it would be perverse to withdraw that offer simply on the basis that a second offence had been committed.

There is always debate about multiple offences and the argument often goes that a driver should be given a chance to modify his behaviour once a transgression has been brought to his attention and that any more offences committed before he has been notified of the first should somehow be "rolled up" together. That is essentially what is being argued here and it's nonsense. A driver should know that he must not exceed the speed limit. If he doesn't he should not be driving at all. He should not need reminding or require re-education. Awareness courses have no legal standing and it is arguable that the police are actually abrogating their responsibility to properly enforce the law by either prosecuting offenders or offering a fixed penalty (which is permitted under statute).

If I was cynical I might suggest that the reason the police are keen to offer awareness courses instead of fixed penalties might be because instead of £100 being paid to the Exchequer, a similar sum is shared between the police and the course provider. If I was really cynical I might liken the practice to the police taking a bribe not to prosecute a matter. But I couldn't possibly consider either of those as credible. Could I?