Gas meter rising without use

SAC2334

[Deleted User] said:

Some words to the wise. If there is a pinhole leak then it is most likely in the area of the gas meter and connections - including the connection to the boiler.  A leaking meter nipple test point can be the culprit. If you want to check, then use something like a child’s bubble mix or soapy water. Bubbles are better than bangs!

The cans of gas leak detector for a few pounds are better than soapy water,  but if the OP has a combi type boiler with no pilot light then  it s a case of calling out a gas safe engineer .

 
The areas of possible leakage are at any joints to the boiler on the pipework and that is where I would use the gas leak detector spray  as well as at the meter itself on right hand union and meter drop test nipple .

First thing that a Gas Safe man will do is do a gas pressure check .

 If Cadent are called out and the leak is internal then they will shut off supply and issue a safety notice until its fixed.

If OP has an old type boiler with a pilot light the problem is solved as MWT suggests .

pochase

Evan3020 said:

It's £15 a month while switched off?

Interesting article here (even so it  not UK based)

https://www.energuide.be/en/questions-answers/just-how-much-does-the-pilot-light-of-a-gas-appliance-consume-exactly/716/

the tested system was almost 0.2KWh per hour. That is 1752KWh, soon more than £20 per months, and seems to be in the middle of boilers with pilot lights cost wise.

brewerdave

NannaH said:

The most important thing is to see why your gas use is so insanely high. What is your summer v winter use? 
My Daughter has a 4 bed detached house and her use is under 15k,  she has a 3 year old plus there are 2 older step kids there every weekend so you can imagine the number of baths and showers.   To contrast,  my 3 bed semi with 2 adults uses 7000kwh (5k winter / 2k summer) and I’m home most of the time. 

Do you have a combi boiler or a hot water tank?  

You must  have extremely good insulation to keep your Winter use down to 5000kwh when you said on another thread that you keep the temp. @ 20 deg in the Winter -either that or your thermostat is jiggered and you don't feel the cold 

wbapubg

MattMattMattUK said:

wbapubg said:

Good morning 

I'd like to pick the brains of people that are more knowledgeable than me (not difficult) if possible please. 

We moved into a 4 bed semi 4 years ago, and since our annual gas usage has ranged between 20000kwh and 23500kwh, which is extremely high (3 adults, gas central heating/water only). Obviously with the new rates I'm getting a little frightened by the costs, so decided last night to turn my boiler off and take a reading.  
I got up this morning and took another reading approximately 11 hours after the first, with the boiler switched off the entire time and no other gas appliances in the house. 
The meter reading originally was 17516.926m³, and I he second reading was 17517.210m³.  And this is with zero usage. 

I know it's not a big rise and maybe insignificant as so small, but would there be any reasoning for this, and what would the cost implications of these continuous rises be without usage or intervention? 

Extreme grateful for any responses and help in this matter, and hope you're all having a great morning. 

Thank you. 
Peter 

A pilot light or a small leak. If I were you I would try this multiple times on a few occasions to see if the behaviour is consistent. You should also be able to turn your gas supply off at the meter, see if your meter still goes up when turned off there as well. Was that read direct from the meter itself, or from an Smart Meter IHD?

Do you know when your meter was installed? There should be a sticker on it showing the installation date and certification period.

Hi Matt

Thank you for your reply. 

Would the pilot light stay on and consume energy even if the boiler is in fact switched off at the mains? 

The reading was taken directly from the meter, I don't have smart meters for gas or electric. 

There's a small sticker stating "Oct-13" other than that, the other information that seems to have been written on has subsequently faded off. 

I will turn boiler and turn off directly at the meter tonight and give it another test. 


Thank you for your help. 
Peter 

wbapubg

NannaH said:

The most important thing is to see why your gas use is so insanely high. What is your summer v winter use? 
My Daughter has a 4 bed detached house and her use is under 15k,  she has a 3 year old plus there are 2 older step kids there every weekend so you can imagine the number of baths and showers.   To contrast,  my 3 bed semi with 2 adults uses 7000kwh (5k winter / 2k summer) and I’m home most of the time. 

Do you have a combi boiler or a hot water tank?  

Hi NannaH

Unfortunately we don't know why it's so high.  We have a combi boiler, British Gas Worcester RD532i and is about 20 years old I believe. We have it serviced every year, and has been since installation. 

We very rarely put the heating on and especially do not touch it during the summer months. I'm pretty sure we made it through to November before switching it on at all last year, and then we use it sparingly as we know the costs, and rely on duvets and blankets mostly, but have a child on the way this winter so know we will be forced to put it on. 

The house is 120 years old, and severely lacks insulation.  We had a log burner installed last winter in the attempt to save on the gas as well. 

The previous occupiers also noted extremely high gas bills, but they did actually have the heating on constantly. 

I've recently insulated the main living room out internally by dropping the ceiling and studding round, fitting insulation between and above. 

Thanks for your help. 
Peter 

wbapubg

BROKEN said:

Peter, Is everyone else in your street connected to your house. Is your heating on all day every day. I looked at your figures 17516.926-17517.210 is only 0.284m³.Do you have your Boiler temperature high. Do you have air in your radiators and have you bled them. Do you have all the thermostats on your radiators turned up high.
One thing I can suggest is getting your last meter reading and take another reading  x 1.02264 x 39.7/3.6(conversion rate as seen on your bill)= (amount of units you have used for the month x by your unit rate (on your bill).the answer is Pounds and Pence of your charges as of now. hope this helps 

Hi Broken 

Thanks for your reply. 

If they was, it would certainly explain a lot! 
All I can say is that the house is extremely cold and rarely gets warm through the winter, even when the heating is actually on. Thermostat is usually set to around 20 max, but it never actually hits that temperature.  One thing to mention is that the thermostat location is in the middle of a long hall way with not radiator, and tends to possibly be the coldest part of the house.  We are also unable to use the smart thermostats with our boiler and have to rely on a TR2 as only compatible thermostat. 

Radiators are bled frequently. Thermostats are all turned to zero instead of rooms that we mostly use in the winter, i.e. living room, bedroom and bathroom.  I actually see my breath on most days throughout the winter in most rooms, even with heating on. 

I will go through last year's bills and correlate the usage between summer and winter.  

Maybe time time for a new boiler

Thanks for your help

Peter

wbapubg

26th November to the 1st Jan, apparently I used 2729kwh gas, in 35 days. 

Then 2383kwh in 31 days the following month. 

It seems extremely high for barely having the heating on.  

I've spent a lot of money insulating the main living space and installing a log burner which will hopefully help the one room, but dreading the winter again. 

With a 20 year old boiler, would it now be worth upgrading as well maybe? 

theoretica

wbapubg said:

26th November to the 1st Jan, apparently I used 2729kwh gas, in 35 days. 

Then 2383kwh in 31 days the following month. 

It seems extremely high for barely having the heating on.  

I've spent a lot of money insulating the main living space and installing a log burner which will hopefully help the one room, but dreading the winter again. 

With a 20 year old boiler, would it now be worth upgrading as well maybe? 

I would put upgrading the boiler itself low down on the list of things to do - after making sure that you are using what you have as efficiently as possible and considering upgrading the control system depending on how advanced, or not, it is.  I have just been talking with my parents about smart controls on all the radiators so I can set their downstairs to be heated during the day, and upstairs only in the evening and morning...  And something that will adjust the flow temperature to the radiators to be only as high as needed, etc...

Basically, make sure the issue really is the boiler before doing the most expensive work.

Coffeekup

SAC2334 said:

[Deleted User] said:

Some words to the wise. If there is a pinhole leak then it is most likely in the area of the gas meter and connections - including the connection to the boiler.  A leaking meter nipple test point can be the culprit. If you want to check, then use something like a child’s bubble mix or soapy water. Bubbles are better than bangs!

The cans of gas leak detector for a few pounds are better than soapy water,  but if the OP has a combi type boiler with no pilot light then  it s a case of calling out a gas safe engineer .

 
The areas of possible leakage are at any joints to the boiler on the pipework and that is where I would use the gas leak detector spray  as well as at the meter itself on right hand union and meter drop test nipple .

First thing that a Gas Safe man will do is do a gas pressure check .

 If Cadent are called out and the leak is internal then they will shut off supply and issue a safety notice until its fixed.

If OP has an old type boiler with a pilot light the problem is solved as MWT suggests .

12 years ago I had a similar issue, the gas meter reader unit has a very small leak. They condemned my boiler and hob(gas) untill they fitted a new gas meter reading unit a few days later.
That's not to say you have a leak but it's possible depending on the boiler type you have and if you're sure you turned off the boiler and not something else. Alternatively that would be a long shower usage.

20,000-23,000 units per year isn't unheard of for 3 people. Mine was for 2 adults and a baby at one time. You just need to decide when to have the heating on and for how long. Tye down side with 3 adults in the house is I presume they all know how to turn the heating on so some usage will be out of your control.

FreeBear

wbapubg said: Radiators are bled frequently. Thermostats are all turned to zero instead of rooms that we mostly use in the winter, i.e. living room, bedroom and bathroom.  I actually see my breath on most days throughout the winter in most rooms, even with heating on.

Are the radiators properly balanced ?

That can make a huge difference. Also worth checking the pump - If a multi-speed, try it on a low speed.

Smart(er) controls can also help to reduce your gas consumption. I have a fully programmable system that allows me to set different temperatures throughout the day/week/year and reckon it has saved me around 15% on gas. Plugging all the cold draughts is another low cost measure which has saved quite a bit too.