Wetroom vs shower tray - Cost difference

ariarnia

they all have that tray. the tanking then the tiles go on top of it so its not visible in the finished room. 

option 1 is going to a shop and buying a tray that will sit on your bathroom floor. 

option 2 is ripping up your bathroom floor, putting all the pipes drain and tray UNDER the floor, then tanking the whole floor to make the whole room watertight, then tiling the whole room. 

option 2 will always be more expensive 

Chaoscontrol

ariarnia said:

they all have that tray. the tanking then the tiles go on top of it so its not visible in the finished room. 

option 1 is going to a shop and buying a tray that will sit on your bathroom floor. 

option 2 is ripping up your bathroom floor, putting all the pipes drain and tray UNDER the floor, then tanking the whole floor to make the whole room watertight, then tiling the whole room. 

option 2 will always be more expensive 

Ok thanks. This cleared something for me. I did not know I needed the wetroom former (the under tray). I will account for that then. 

However, then it still strengthens my point even more. There's a tray in both cases. Why would you waterproof the entire room in option 2? The same way water will escape in option 1, it will in option 2, not more. 

If you trust the line of sealant in option 1 between glass and tray, why don't you trust it between glass and tile?

Sorry, I know I'm being tough, but I still don't get it. 

Doozergirl

Chaoscontrol said:

ariarnia said:

they all have that tray. the tanking then the tiles go on top of it so its not visible in the finished room. 

option 1 is going to a shop and buying a tray that will sit on your bathroom floor. 

option 2 is ripping up your bathroom floor, putting all the pipes drain and tray UNDER the floor, then tanking the whole floor to make the whole room watertight, then tiling the whole room. 

option 2 will always be more expensive 

Ok thanks. This cleared something for me. I did not know I needed the wetroom former (the under tray). I will account for that then. 

However, then it still strengthens my point even more. There's a tray in both cases. Why would you waterproof the entire room in option 2? The same way water will escape in option 1, it will in option 2, not more. 

If you trust the line of sealant in option 1 between glass and tray, why don't you trust it between glass and tile?

Sorry, I know I'm being tough, but I still don't get it. 

Because a wet room tray does not have a lip, like a regular shower tray.  That lip contains the water before it hits the drain.  Whilst the join between shower tray and wall is and remains vulnerable if the silicon isn't done correctly, it isn't the vessel itself.  The tray is the vessel, like a bath is a vessel. 

You wouldn't tile the entire room and call it a bath, like you can't tile a room and call it a wet room.  Tiles and the joins between them are not waterproof and certainly not watertight.  

The tray for a wet room is not the waterproofing either.   It is the shaped subfloor and the route for the drainage.  It is the subsequent tanking that forms the lip up the wall, making it invisible.  

Then, and only then, do you get to tile.  Regular shower trays don't need tiling.   The tiling to a wet room is more difficult than a regular floor, because the cuts have to follow a multi dimensional slope down to the drain whilst the area where the screen will sit needs to remain level.  

So we've got ripping up the whole floor, preparing the existing joists to hold the tray correctly and flush with the remaining floor, adding drainage beneath the floor which doesn't already exist, tanking, decoupling membrane for the tiles and a skilled tiling job - all extra work.   Plus the simple fact that there are more materials and even the shower tray is more expensive than a regular one.  

Just because you can't see something when it's finished, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  That's the skilled part.  

Chaoscontrol

Doozergirl said:

Because a wet room tray does not have a lip, like a regular shower tray.  That lip contains the water before it hits the drain.  Whilst the join between shower tray and wall is and remains vulnerable if the silicon isn't done correctly, it isn't the vessel itself.  

The tray for a wet room is not the waterproofing.   It is the shaped subfloor and the route for the drainage.  It is the subsequent tanking that forms the lip up the wall.  

Then, and only then, do you get to tile.  Regular shower trays don't need tiling.   The tiling to a wet room is more difficult than a regular floor, because the cuts have to follow a multi dimensional slope down to the drain whilst the area where the screen will sit needs to remain level.  

So we've got ripping up the whole floor, preparing the existing joists to hold the tray correctly and flush with the remaining floor, adding drainage beneath the floor which doesn't already exist, tanking, decoupling membrane for the tiles and a skilled tiling job - all extra work.   Plus the simple fact that there are more materials and even the shower tray is more expensive than a regular one.  

I think it's starting to make sense to me. Thanks. Funny thing it was the wetroom former which made me realise of the building layers. 

So basically in a standard shower we trust the glass, we trust the tray, and the silicon in between, so it keeps sealed. 
But in a wetroom, we trust the former, we trust the glass, but since they're not connected directly, but have tiles in between, which are not trustworthy, the water could "escape" from them. So we need to add a waterproof layer all around. 

I still don't get the deal with the wall though, as a shower tray doesn't protect the wall anymore than a wetroom. 

Doozergirl

Chaoscontrol said:

Doozergirl said:

Because a wet room tray does not have a lip, like a regular shower tray.  That lip contains the water before it hits the drain.  Whilst the join between shower tray and wall is and remains vulnerable if the silicon isn't done correctly, it isn't the vessel itself.  

The tray for a wet room is not the waterproofing.   It is the shaped subfloor and the route for the drainage.  It is the subsequent tanking that forms the lip up the wall.  

Then, and only then, do you get to tile.  Regular shower trays don't need tiling.   The tiling to a wet room is more difficult than a regular floor, because the cuts have to follow a multi dimensional slope down to the drain whilst the area where the screen will sit needs to remain level.  

So we've got ripping up the whole floor, preparing the existing joists to hold the tray correctly and flush with the remaining floor, adding drainage beneath the floor which doesn't already exist, tanking, decoupling membrane for the tiles and a skilled tiling job - all extra work.   Plus the simple fact that there are more materials and even the shower tray is more expensive than a regular one.  

I think it's starting to make sense to me. Thanks. Funny thing it was the wetroom former which made me realise of the building layers. 

So basically in a standard shower we trust the glass, we trust the tray, and the silicon in between, so it keeps sealed. 
But in a wetroom, we trust the former, we trust the glass, but since they're not connected directly, but have tiles in between, which are not trustworthy, the water could "escape" from them. So we need to add a waterproof layer all around. 

I still don't get the deal with the wall though, as a shower tray doesn't protect the wall anymore than a wetroom. 

If you're doing a bathroom properly then you'd replace plaster with cement board, which is waterproof, then tile.  The wall isn't where the main difference in work comes in between a shower and a wet room, water is always looking to go down via gravity, which is why the join between wall and floor is most vulnerable, as well as the floor.  

In a regular shower, you butt the tray against the wall, silicon to waterproof-ish, then tile over the edge of the tray, helping to direct water into the tray, not down the wall.   Then you silicon again. 

grumbler

IMO, in simple terms, this all boils down to the fact, that tiles joints aren't watertight, especially on horizontal surface that flexes. Hence, the underlay with the edges going up, forming a water-tight tray under the tiles.

Chaoscontrol

Doozergirl said:

If you're doing a bathroom properly then you'd replace plaster with cement board, which is waterproof, then tile.  The wall isn't where the main difference in work comes in between a shower and a wet room, water is always looking to go down via gravity, which is why the join between wall and floor is most vulnerable, as well as the floor.  

In a regular shower, you butt the tray against the wall, silicon to waterproof-ish, then tile over the edge of the tray, helping to direct water into the tray, not down the wall.   Then you silicon again. 

Ah, kinda makes sense , putting the tray under the tiles, recessed towards the wall. 

Still don't see fully the difference. I made this super nice drawing to confirm my understandings.

Left is shower tray. Triangles are silicone sealing. In there, we trust that the water getting behind the wall's tiles, falls down and gets in the tray anyway. Correct? 

Right is wet room. The need of tanking is due to water being able to escape on the left through the tiles, in between glass and former. Correct? 

Then on the wall side, is the former not sealed against the wall the same way the normal tray is? Wouldn't the water getting behind tiles get on the former anyway and be drained by it? Where's the extra risk for needing to tank the wall?

Apodemus

I like a shower and I like the idea of a wet room... but the frequency with which showers are a source of a water leak is quite high and the added complexity of a wet room inevitably increases the risk of a leak.  I've seen too many badly designed or badly installed showers leaking into lower floors to ever want an upstairs wet room.

gwynlas

A wetroom is fine if you are starting from scratch as in new build or extensive renovation. Converting an existing bathroom or shower room to a wetroom is more difficult due to floor depth drainage runs etc. 

Gavin83

Doozergirl said:

Chaoscontrol said:

Doozergirl said:

Because a wet room tray does not have a lip, like a regular shower tray.  That lip contains the water before it hits the drain.  Whilst the join between shower tray and wall is and remains vulnerable if the silicon isn't done correctly, it isn't the vessel itself.  

The tray for a wet room is not the waterproofing.   It is the shaped subfloor and the route for the drainage.  It is the subsequent tanking that forms the lip up the wall.  

Then, and only then, do you get to tile.  Regular shower trays don't need tiling.   The tiling to a wet room is more difficult than a regular floor, because the cuts have to follow a multi dimensional slope down to the drain whilst the area where the screen will sit needs to remain level.  

So we've got ripping up the whole floor, preparing the existing joists to hold the tray correctly and flush with the remaining floor, adding drainage beneath the floor which doesn't already exist, tanking, decoupling membrane for the tiles and a skilled tiling job - all extra work.   Plus the simple fact that there are more materials and even the shower tray is more expensive than a regular one.  

I think it's starting to make sense to me. Thanks. Funny thing it was the wetroom former which made me realise of the building layers. 

So basically in a standard shower we trust the glass, we trust the tray, and the silicon in between, so it keeps sealed. 
But in a wetroom, we trust the former, we trust the glass, but since they're not connected directly, but have tiles in between, which are not trustworthy, the water could "escape" from them. So we need to add a waterproof layer all around. 

I still don't get the deal with the wall though, as a shower tray doesn't protect the wall anymore than a wetroom. 

If you're doing a bathroom properly then you'd replace plaster with cement board, which is waterproof, then tile.  The wall isn't where the main difference in work comes in between a shower and a wet room, water is always looking to go down via gravity, which is why the join between wall and floor is most vulnerable, as well as the floor.  

In a regular shower, you butt the tray against the wall, silicon to waterproof-ish, then tile over the edge of the tray, helping to direct water into the tray, not down the wall.   Then you silicon again. 

Not meaning to be pedantic here but I was under the impression that cement boards aren’t waterproof, merely water resistant and water can still permeate them. Therefore cement boards will still need tanking to stop the later behind the cement boards getting damaged.

You can get truly waterproof boards, although they aren’t cement based and you’ll pay a premium.