Power of attorney. Executors, legalities of removal of items

wannaberich41

Morning,
I’ve got a few questions which I hope you don’t mind me asking. I’m asking on behalf of my husband who’s just lost his father 2 days ago.
First of all. Legally on a will do you have to have power of attorney?
Also do you legally have to have executors and is there a minimum qty you have to have ?
We have not seen the will or know which solicitors it is at, is there a way of finding out or will it be a case of ringing round solicitors to find out? 

No death certificate has been received yet and no will has been read.
however 3 hours after the passing we were told that his car is being collected that night and given to one of the 9 grand children as apparently that was his wishes.(not seen the will)
surely they have to wait for the death certificate and will being read before they start removing items from the property?
Also son in law taken all his finances and pensions and insurances home with him and says he’s transferring them to mother in laws name.  Can they do this without death certificate?

Robin9

Very sorry to hear of your loss

To answer some of your questions

POA ceases on death - the administration of the estate passes to the executors of which there may only be one.

Wills are not "read"  like in an Agatha Christie.

My parents had a drawer with all their documents in -  does MIL not know.  

Unless you are an executor there is no right for you to see the will.

thegreenone

Sorry for your loss.  Without being rude, it sounds as though your husband's family were waiting to pounce.

It's too early for DCs, probably Wednesday this coming week????  They will go to the Executor/s.

AFAIAA, only the Executor can contact the companies (ins etc) with a Death Certificate.  Is son in law an Executor?  Otherwise, all he can do is go through it all and start writing the letters but he cannot sign them.   All companies will need to see a Death Certificate before they change/remove names on accounts.

The car is still part of FiLs estate and shouldn't be given to anyone until the Executor says so and the Exec will need to inform the DVLA as above.  Nothing should be removed without MiLs/Exec permission - it's still her house.

elsien

There isn’t a minimum number of executors, that’s down to the person who wrote the will. Solicitors won’t tell you what’s in it - up to the executor to decide whether to share or not.
Are you sure there is a will? If not, you’re into the intestacy/letter of administration territory. 

SevenOfNine

Is MiL still married to FiL? Still living together & MiL has asked her SiL to sort through financial paperwork while the death is being registered.

Is it probable that some of the finances are in joint names? So that's just the bit he's looking at sorting if possible now?

Not a lot of transferring can be done without the death cert, but banks will release their limit (often as high as £50k) on sight of it, personal ID & a disclaimer signed. Other financial organisations will want probate (or Letters of Administration) done first.

Do you know for a fact there is a will? Is your husband worried he's being sidelined & something isn't right IF MiL isn't still fully funtioning mentally?  SiL....so where is your husband's sister in all this?

wannaberich41

Yes mother in law still married to father in law.  

She doesn’t drive so wouldn’t need the car.  

Sister in law (one of the daughters) is a coercive control freak and bullied her parents all her life.  It was her way or no way else she would scream and shout in your face.
Mil always went with what daughter says and she’s too afraid. 

How do we find out what’s on the will and who are executors?
mil will just lie because if daughter and dies everything she says.  Is my husband allowed too see the will and find out who’s executor?
only to make sure what’s being done is the truth, whole truth and everything but the truth. 

Yes we’re concerned things are not being dealt with correctly.

Brie

Isn't there a will register somewhere ?  I'm sure someone has mentioned something about this in the past.

In contradiction of others....I changed most of the accounts from FiL to MiL after his death and about a week before the death certificate was available.  (pre covid so I needed to go pick it up in person).  There was no problem informing British Gas, BT etc as I was doing the calls to them in MiL's lounge with her available in case they wanted to know it was ok to talk to me. 

I would hope that any company would refuse to talk to BiL unless she was sitting there to consent.  I informed DWP and the occupational pension scheme as well as the banks but while they were all willing to log the death they did ask to see the DC before proceeding with anything.  

As for the shouty daughter - I would be accusing her of elder abuse.  I would also say to whatever sibling's child has been given a car that if that's not expressly stated in the will then it's part of the estate and as such the value of the car will come out of that individual's portion of the estate if there is one.  Otherwise it will be something that needs to be paid to the estate unless all the beneficiaries agree.  I mean if the estate is in the millions and the car worth £50 then who cares but if the estate is minimal then grandkid (or grandkid's parent) owes MiL some ££.

Sorry for the situation you and your OH are in.  Death can bring out the best or the worst in families.

wannaberich41

Brie said:

Isn't there a will register somewhere ?  I'm sure someone has mentioned something about this in the past.

In contradiction of others....I changed most of the accounts from FiL to MiL after his death and about a week before the death certificate was available.  (pre covid so I needed to go pick it up in person).  There was no problem informing British Gas, BT etc as I was doing the calls to them in MiL's lounge with her available in case they wanted to know it was ok to talk to me. 

I would hope that any company would refuse to talk to BiL unless she was sitting there to consent.  I informed DWP and the occupational pension scheme as well as the banks but while they were all willing to log the death they did ask to see the DC before proceeding with anything.  

As for the shouty daughter - I would be accusing her of elder abuse.  I would also say to whatever sibling's child has been given a car that if that's not expressly stated in the will then it's part of the estate and as such the value of the car will come out of that individual's portion of the estate if there is one.  Otherwise it will be something that needs to be paid to the estate unless all the beneficiaries agree.  I mean if the estate is in the millions and the car worth £50 then who cares but if the estate is minimal then grandkid (or grandkid's parent) owes MiL some ££.

Sorry for the situation you and your OH are in.  Death can bring out the best or the worst in families.

Your telling me.  The daughter is vile and a control freak.   I didn’t know if I could ring local solicitor and ask the question who are executors?
my fil wanted to die at home and even had told macmillan this.  

However daughter and son and wife said she wouldn’t cope at home looking after her husband.  Having experienced cancer with my father who did die at home with cancer.  He had a fantastic support network of caters and nurses coming in and out several times a day.  So my husband and me knew there would be a good support network for him.  But it was with them what mum wants not dad.   

The day before he died he was still able to mutter odd words and kept saying home (his wishes) but they still put their foot down and said no. and all my husband wanted was to respect his wishes but they were all against it. (That they will have to live with) 
As she is a lying control freak how do we know what we’re being told is the truth when we haven’t seen the will.  How do we find out who the executors are?
mil woukdnt be honest because of the bully of a daughter. 

Even telling us what flower arrangements we and the grandchildren are doing. 

(We’re not as we will do the flowers we want to do and not be dictated too) 
certainly brings the worst out of people doesn’t it 

74jax

wannaberich41 said:

Brie said:

Isn't there a will register somewhere ?  I'm sure someone has mentioned something about this in the past.

In contradiction of others....I changed most of the accounts from FiL to MiL after his death and about a week before the death certificate was available.  (pre covid so I needed to go pick it up in person).  There was no problem informing British Gas, BT etc as I was doing the calls to them in MiL's lounge with her available in case they wanted to know it was ok to talk to me. 

I would hope that any company would refuse to talk to BiL unless she was sitting there to consent.  I informed DWP and the occupational pension scheme as well as the banks but while they were all willing to log the death they did ask to see the DC before proceeding with anything.  

As for the shouty daughter - I would be accusing her of elder abuse.  I would also say to whatever sibling's child has been given a car that if that's not expressly stated in the will then it's part of the estate and as such the value of the car will come out of that individual's portion of the estate if there is one.  Otherwise it will be something that needs to be paid to the estate unless all the beneficiaries agree.  I mean if the estate is in the millions and the car worth £50 then who cares but if the estate is minimal then grandkid (or grandkid's parent) owes MiL some ££.

Sorry for the situation you and your OH are in.  Death can bring out the best or the worst in families.

Your telling me.  The daughter is vile and a control freak.   I didn’t know if I could ring local solicitor and ask the question who are executors?
You can certainly call them all, say xxx has died and you are teaching a Will. 

my fil wanted to die at home and even had told macmillan this.  

However daughter and son and wife said she wouldn’t cope at home looking after her husband.  Having experienced cancer with my father who did die at home with cancer.  He had a fantastic support network of caters and nurses coming in and out several times a day.  So my husband and me knew there would be a good support network for him.  But it was with them what mum wants not dad.   
Sadly this is sometimes how it is. 

The day before he died he was still able to mutter odd words and kept saying home (his wishes) but they still put their foot down and said no. and all my husband wanted was to respect his wishes but they were all against it. (That they will have to live with) 

certainly brings the worst out of people doesn’t it 

My dad wanted to die at home. I've posted on here a couple of times the absolute pain I went through regarding this.
He had carers, night time nurses, palative care packs at home with end of life medicine ... Yet the day before he died I made the decision  to transfer him to a hospice.  My brother and I did everything joint, yet I had a minute to make the decision and said yes to transferring him. I called my brother afterwards in so much pain he actually thought dad had died until I told him what I did. His words to me were 'sis you did what was right at the time, do not feel bad'.
I'm only saying this as reading your line 'they have to live with it' is so true. But my brother helped me, I made the decision but he didn't want me to take the burden. There's many many reasons why sometimes at the end, care at home (even with the best paid care in place) just isn't right, and making people feel bad about the the decision they took sometimes isn't the best way forward. I don't regret it, but my heart is so sad Dad didn't get what he wanted. I still cry now about it. 

Sorry I wrote more on that than I planned, but I do think it's important. Moving back to the Will..... Call local solicitors, check the national Will register https://www.nationalwillregister.co.uk/
And find out if there is a Will which will name executors. 
If there's no Will, will MIL sort the Estate? Am I right in thinking there's your husband (son of deceased) and a sister (the SIL)? 
Who had PoA when he was alive? Do they know if there was a Will? 
I'm guessing your husband visited regularly, gets on with MIL? Does MIL know of a Will or have a "family solicitor' you could try? 

elsien

The will register information  is here, but there’s no obligation to use it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/store-a-will-with-the-probate-service/how-to-store-a-will-with-the-probate-service

A will made by a solicitor could be stored with them, or the person could have chosen to take it home and not have it stored anywhere.
And if there is one, you can’t find out what’s in it without the co-operation of the executors until after probate, if probate is needed. 

If there’s no will then there’s an order for applying for letters of administration.
https://www.gov.uk/applying-for-probate/if-theres-not-a-will

But if things were set up in join names then it’s possible most of it goes automatically to MIL with not much left to administer. 
I believe any pension payouts, for example, fall outside of the estate and go to whoever was named as beneficiary at the discretion of the trustees. 

wannaberich41

I would like to thank you all for your advice. Sorry to rant but feel so helpless for my husband. My dads funeral and everything else was so much more different and nicer than this. 
we have found out there is definitely a will.  Also that the mil is the sole executor.  She’s told my husband she hasn’t opened it and won’t until she sees a solicitor for it to be read. 
(Think this is a lie). Only because she was like all the money is mine in a aggressive manor and no emotion whatsoever.   Told my husband If there’s anything he wants out of the shed to get it now as she wants it gone. Told him that fil farming ornaments are to be distributed to the male  grand children.  Also asked if he wanted any of his watches.  How can she do this if she hasn’t opened his will????
The car apparently was a verbal agreement.  However 4 days before he passed he said to me and my daughter that it doesn’t look like he will drive his car so Praps needs to sell it.  Why would he say that if he had already said it’s verbally to go to a certain grand son??
Their daughter is controlling the whole situation from telling us what flowers we will be putting in with the coffin to who’s saying what at the funeral.  

She’s nothing more than a vile bully who everyone is afraid of. 

The step son was given the task of getting the body from the hospital to the funeral directors. (Not even his son my husband is and his only son) that was organised by the control freak. 

It is so so wrong what’s going on.
How do we know if it goes to probate?