ESA/PIP concerns about an abroad trip.

HumanPerson

Big thanks to everyone who posted. 

Charles_Foxtrot

It is very clear on the gov.uk site that you must inform the job centre for ESA, and the DWP for PIP, for going abroad for ANY reason and for ANY length of time. 

It is in black and white here: https://www.gov.uk/pip/change-of-circumstances - you must inform if you go abroad. It does not state any exceptions. 

It is in black and white here: https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/change-of-circumstances - you must inform if "going abroad for any length of time"

The wording has changed on these websites sometime in the past year. It used to be for PIP you must inform if you were going 28 days or longer. Not anymore. All trips abroad must be reported. 

poppy12345

Charles_Foxtrot said:

It is very clear on the gov.uk site that you must inform the job centre for ESA, and the DWP for PIP, for going abroad for ANY reason and for ANY length of time. 

It is in black and white here: https://www.gov.uk/pip/change-of-circumstances - you must inform if you go abroad. It does not state any exceptions. 

It is in black and white here: https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/change-of-circumstances - you must inform if "going abroad for any length of time"

The wording has changed on these websites sometime in the past year. It used to be for PIP you must inform if you were going 28 days or longer. Not anymore. All trips abroad must be reported. 

It also says that any changes must be reported. If you're in the Support Group and your conditions worsen there's nothing to report because you already have the highest award you can have. Therefore those links are very misleading.

When claiming ESA you're allowed to go for 28 days. For PIP it's 13 weeks. I've been abroad many times since i've claimed both benefits and never inform DWP and there's never been any problems. My holiday is already booked for next year and i won't be informing them because it's less than 28 days. 

Charles_Foxtrot

poppy12345 said:

It also says that any changes must be reported. If you're in the Support Group and your conditions worsen there's nothing to report because you already have the highest award you can have. Therefore those links are very misleading.

When claiming ESA you're allowed to go for 28 days. For PIP it's 13 weeks. I've been abroad many times since i've claimed both benefits and never inform DWP and there's never been any problems. My holiday is already booked for next year and i won't be informing them because it's less than 28 days. 

Thanks - I haven't informed in the past either, but I've only been away 3 times and under the limit. But the language changed and since this is the gov.uk website, I would assume it is "gospel?" Especially how the follow it with "you are committing benefit fraud" if you don't report any of those long list of changes?

The 28 days rule was in my PIP letter from years ago, and that language was on GOV.uk. But now it's different and it seems rules change all the time. The thing is, going abroad in this example, just because there have never been any problems, doesn't mean there CAN'T be a problem, no? 

When I see it written out like this so plainly,  it makes me nervous. 

(ETA - it could be that we had no problems in the past because the rule used to be not needing to inform if you're going away under 28 days...that was explicit on the PIP award letter and the gov.uk website...but now the language changed. So it reads to me the rules have changed. What I would really find helpful if anybody here has a recent PIP award letter, and what it states on there about informing about going abroad?)

Do you have any current links to direct evidence that we don't have to inform if it's less than 28 days? 

Thank you.

poppy12345

Charles_Foxtrot said:

Thanks - I haven't informed in the past either, but I've only been away 3 times and under the limit. But the language changed and since this is the gov.uk website, I would assume it is "gospel?" Especially how the follow it with "you are committing benefit fraud" if you don't report any of those long list of changes?

Just because it's on the gov.uk website it doesn't mean it's gospel. Have a look at this link for ESA and it says..

If you’re going abroad for less than 4 weeks, it won’t affect your ESA - but you should still tell the DWP.

If you’re going abroad for 4 weeks or more then you must tell the DWP. If you don’t, your ESA payments could be stopped.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/employment-and-support-allowance/while-youre-getting-esa/esa-reporting-changes/

Note the "should" in the above.

Charles_Foxtrot said:

The 28 days rule was in my PIP letter from years ago, and that language was on GOV.uk. But now it's different and it seems rules change all the time.

The 28 day rule has never applied to PIP when traveling abroad. It's always been 13 weeks. For going abroad for less than 13 weeks it says "it's worth telling DWP if you do go just incase they contact you"

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/pip-changes-and-reviews/changes-that-affect-pip/

Charles_Foxtrot said:

The thing is, going abroad in this example, just because there have never been any problems, doesn't mean there CAN'T be a problem, no? 

As the link says above, your ESA will not stop if you go abroad for less than 28 days so no, there won't be a problem.

Charles_Foxtrot said:

Do you have any current links to direct evidence that we don't have to inform if it's less than 28 days? 

Only what i've posted above.

Charles_Foxtrot

OK now I'm really confused because I'm not sure why citizen's advice's website is a better source of information than the gov.uk website? 

The reason I bring up the 28 day rule for PIP is (I'm looking at my PIP award letter right now) and it states: 

Other changes you must tell us about
Please tell us straightaway if you:
Leave or intend to leave the country for more than 4 weeks, even if it's for a holiday. 

4 weeks = 28 days ... so that's where I got that number from. My award letter says clearly that I must inform them if I intend to leave or go for more than 4 weeks...but I understand that as you say that it doesn't mean your benefit will stop...like you say that's 13 weeks? 

And now the Gov.uk website says for any length of time - ARGH why can't they just be consistent? 

poppy12345

Charles_Foxtrot said:

OK now I'm really confused because I'm not sure why citizen's advice's website is a better source of information than the gov.uk website? 

Because the Gov website also tells you that ALL changes need to be reported but that's misleading because not all changes need to be reported. It depends what that change is. For example, if someone has a change of medication or a diagnosis those are not really classed as a change of circumstances.

My PIP award says you need to tell DWP if you intend to leave the country for more than 4 weeks. PIP continues for 13 weeks so i have no idea why they tell you 4 weeks on the letter.

Either way, i've never told them i'm going away and i don't intend to start telling them. I go away for less than the time allowed and that's all that matters to me.

Charles_Foxtrot

poppy12345 said:

Because the Gov website also tells you that ALL changes need to be reported but that's misleading because not all changes need to be reported. It depends what that change is. For example, if someone has a change of medication or a diagnosis those are not really classed as a change of circumstances.

My PIP award says you need to tell DWP if you intend to leave the country for more than 4 weeks. PIP continues for 13 weeks so i have no idea why they tell you 4 weeks on the letter.

Either way, i've never told them i'm going away and i don't intend to start telling them. I go away for less than the time allowed and that's all that matters to me.

Ok that makes more sense…basically what you’re saying is what the government says doesn’t make sense, and that makes perfect sense that they wouldn’t make sense, lol!

Spoonie_Turtle

What matters is complying with the law.  So changes of circumstances that affect the administration of the benefit and/or entitlement to it need to be reported.  For instance, change of name/address/etc., or being abroad for longer than the relevant period/change in condition if it would affect what award is appropriate/going into hospital for however many days it is/going to prison/going abroad for longer than a standard temporary absence/moving abroad (there is a situation where PIP daily living can be paid to someone living abroad but not mobility)/etc.

If there is legislation requiring reporting of irrelevant changes, I haven't yet found it and would happily have someone point me to it - and it would certainly make things simpler all round whenever anyone asks this question

Consistency in governmental information is a bit too much to ask, let's be honest.

Charles_Foxtrot

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Consistency in governmental information is a bit too much to ask, let's be honest.

Touché...