Are solar panels pointless?

lomasonhere

Apparently it can take a minimum of 14 years to break even. Do they even last that long? Does their efficiency also not deteriorate over time? (Plus how do you keep them clean?!)
But once installed the technology is 'fixed' at that point in time. And tech moves fast. There you will be in at least a decade with old tech, when during that time stuff like photovolectric paint will be viable. Even now you can buy self-adhesive flexible solar sheets at a rapidly decreasing cost, and are in wide use where practical. (Boat; motorhome; shed roofs etc).
The feed-in payments are also protectionist. 'They' really do not like the idea of generating your own power, for free, so pay peanuts for any excess. In reality 'they' should install the panels for free, paid for by the excess. But the panels are not really currently that effective are they?

2nd_time_buyer

lomasonhere said:

Apparently it can take a minimum of 14 years to break even. No, much less than that in the current market Do they even last that long? Yes Does their efficiency also not deteriorate over time? Not significantly (Plus how do you keep them clean?!) Rain and sun does it for you generally
But once installed the technology is 'fixed' at that point in time. And tech moves fast. There you will be in at least a decade with old tech, when during that time stuff like photovolectric paint will be viable. The rate of improvements of efficiency has slowed down  Even now you can buy self-adhesive flexible solar sheets at a rapidly decreasing cost, and are in wide use where practical. (Boat; motorhome; shed roofs etc). They are not currently as efficient and are probably much less durable than typical panels
The feed-in payments are also protectionist. 'They' really do not like the idea of generating your own power, for free, so pay peanuts for any excess. In reality 'they' should install the panels for free, paid for by the excess. The Octopus Agile tariff pays much more currently. But the panels are not really currently that effective are they? No, they are effective

There is a lot to decompress there. I have added a few responses above 

EcoScruples

The good news is that if you don't want to buy solar panels.......you don't have to.
Win, win......

ABrass

In short, you're wrong on most of your points.

The one that's worth discussing is the rapid pace of technological improvement. Every year panel production gets a bit cheaper, panel sizes get bigger (mostly for industrial users). But the rate of change isn't that great. Buying a year later has never to date given enough improvement to make waiting sensible. You've always been able to earn more in a year than the savings buying a year later would have been.

Also, it doesn't matter if next year the flexible panels start offering a reasonable lifespan compared to silicon ones, as long as your system pays for itself. Technology moves on, but don't let that paralyze you or you'll never pick anything.

Martyn1981

lomasonhere said:

Apparently it can take a minimum of 14 years to break even. Do they even last that long? Does their efficiency also not deteriorate over time? (Plus how do you keep them clean?!)

Probably last 30-50yrs. My 11yr old panels aren't showing any noticeable reduction in generation, but perhaps weather is hiding a ~3% reduction (let's say 0.3% pa) and my annual figures just don't make it obvious yet.

It would be nice to have 50% more generation on my roof from the latest panels, but the DNO wouldn't let me go bigger anyway. Looks like Silicon PV (certainly at an economical level) is topping out at around 22%, with not a huge amount of growth potential left. Hopefully Perovskite / Silicon panels may be able to lift that another 50% (to low/mid 30's), and for a similar cost per Wp, but that's probably a few to five years off, and then you have to worry about locking in, when the technology could rise to high 30's.  

Thin panels, fine, but you still have to attach them, and also have all of the other associated install costs, so savings will be minimal, possibly negative as it's unlikely they'll last as long as rigid, glass fronted panels. But, flexible stick on panels are a great ideas for vehicles, such as buses, truck trailers, and also large structures, such as large FF storage tanks, little bit of irony there.

QrizB

As you might have gathered by now, the answer to your opening question "are solar panels pointless?" is no.

Do you have any other questions?

lomasonhere

According to the calculator on this site, the 'savings' on my electric bill does not equal my bill. And my usage is not great.  (And my heating is gas!) It would take decades to pay off the installation, if ever. And my house gets sun on both sides. So pointless for some people? I have read so many reports since solar panels became common that say they do not live up to the installing companys'  promise.
There are indeed systems in current development that in a decade or two will be available that are far more efficient and cheaper. But I suppose waiting for them is like not buying a PC because next year's will be better.
If they do work so well, why do electricity companies not fit them for free, the cost covered by the excess power they supposedly generate? And they charge you for power just a little over wholesale market price? After all, it is your roof they would be using.
The main benefit is the panels are 'green', but like electric cars, they are above the budget of most people, as witnessed by the number of roofs that carry them. Becoming green is currently for the rich. If the Gov really want to get carbon production down, they would do much more to enable people to cut theirs down.

ABrass

lomasonhere said:

According to the calculator on this site, the 'savings' on my electric bill does not equal my bill. And my usage is not great.  (And my heating is gas!) It would take decades to pay off the installation, if ever. And my house gets sun on both sides. So pointless for some people? I have read so many reports since solar panels became common that say they do not live up to the installing companys'  promise.
There are indeed systems in current development that in a decade or two will be available that are far more efficient and cheaper. But I suppose waiting for them is like not buying a PC because next year's will be better.
If they do work so well, why do electricity companies not fit them for free, the cost covered by the excess power they supposedly generate? And they charge you for power just a little over wholesale market price? After all, it is your roof they would be using.
The main benefit is the panels are 'green', but like electric cars, they are above the budget of most people, as witnessed by the number of roofs that carry them. Becoming green is currently for the rich. If the Gov really want to get carbon production down, they would do much more to enable people to cut theirs down.

How much have you been quoted?

Without details you sound like you're just having a moan, which is fine, but let's be honest about it.

2nd_time_buyer

lomasonhere said:

According to the calculator on this site, the 'savings' on my electric bill does not equal my bill. And my usage is not great.  (And my heating is gas!) It would take decades to pay off the installation, if ever. And my house gets sun on both sides. So pointless for some people? I have read so many reports since solar panels became common that say they do not live up to the installing companys'  promise.
There are indeed systems in current development that in a decade or two will be available that are far more efficient and cheaper. But I suppose waiting for them is like not buying a PC because next year's will be better.
If they do work so well, why do electricity companies not fit them for free, the cost covered by the excess power they supposedly generate? And they charge you for power just a little over wholesale market price? After all, it is your roof they would be using.
The main benefit is the panels are 'green', but like electric cars, they are above the budget of most people, as witnessed by the number of roofs that carry them. Becoming green is currently for the rich. If the Gov really want to get carbon production down, they would do much more to enable people to cut theirs down.

I believe that calculator links through to the Energy Saving Trust Calculator, which makes some pretty pessimist assumptions:

Our 6.7 kw system was installed last November for £7200. The Energy Saving Trust Calculator is predicting a £457 annual saving and a £9200 installation cost.

In fact, this year I am on track for an annual saving of £1300. Next year the saving will almost certainly be more due to the higher electricity prices. This makes the payback period less than 6 years as opposed to the Energy Saving Trust's 25 years.  

A large part of the difference is that the calculator assumes export at 4.2p per kwh. On Octopus Agile I have been getting an average around 20p per kwh and I have also been exporting a lot more energy than the calculator assumes. 

ispookie666

If the calculations do not fit your needs, there is no compulsion to install Solar. Those who have found it to be financially viable will go ahead. It may not be for everyone. Solar is currently the easily accessible renewable energy source for the home market. 

This is my second solar panel install and like a few others on here have had panels since 2015,

Maybe an extra layer of jumper, multi fuel stove etc.... 

thevilla

If you don't think solar is for you have you looked at Ripple?   Start at £25.  Moves with you.

Nothing is more fun than watching your solar production and trying to time the washing machine switch on though 🤣