UKPC ticket "parking on roadway" in residential estate I live in. POPLA appeal stage. Please help.

Coupon-mad

That's good advice and something we are guilty of forgetting on this board.

I seem to recall we had a thread earlier this year suggesting that more Managing Agents should be taken to the Property Ombudsman, due to what they are inflicting on residents with onerous permit schemes that offer nothing the resident doesn't already have the right to do free, and costs people money and interferes with the rights within their leases.

eddddy

Coupon-mad said:

I seem to recall we had a thread earlier this year suggesting that more Managing Agents should be taken to the Property Ombudsman, due to what they are inflicting on residents with onerous permit schemes that offer nothing the resident doesn't already have the right to do free, and costs people money and interferes with the rights within their leases.

I'd be interested to see a link to that thread - as it sounds like it's beyond the scope of what the Property Ombudsman would normally adjudicate on, in relation to a leasehold block management company.

My understanding is the Ombudsman will only get involved in complaints about breaches of Property Ombudsman scheme membership obligations - like poor service, discrimination, etc. (See link to membership obligations below).

For example, not replying to letters and phone calls on a timely basis would be breaches - like in this case (not related to parking) :

Preside, a residential block management company in London, W1. A leaseholder complained that after reporting a leak coming from the flat above into his property it took nine months for something to be done. The leak was eventually repaired but the remedial work to his property remained incomplete. Evidence provided by the leaseholder showed poor communication from Preside following several letters and phone calls which received no response. TPO made an award of £750.

Link: https://www.tpos.co.uk/news-media-and-press-releases/press-releases/item/only-two-agents-excluded-from-the-property-ombudsman-in-q4-2021

So my understanding is that a complaint to the Ombudsman along the lines of "The Management Company inflicted an onerous permit scheme" is likely to be rejected immediately.

But a complaint along the lines of "I asked the management company to explain why they implemented the permit scheme and they didn't reply" or "I asked the management company to contact the parking operator to explain that I didn't need a permit, and to get the charge cancelled, but they didn't contact the parking operator or reply to me" - those might be examples of poor service, so the Ombudsman is more likely to investigate.

(But you'd have to follow the Management Company's complaints procedure first.)


For reference, here's info about TPOS membership for Management Companies: https://www.tpos.co.uk/join-the-scheme/online-application/block-management

And here's details of membership obligations: https://www.tpos.co.uk/images/documents/rules-codes-obligations/TPOE46-5_General_Membership_Obligations.pdf

My understanding is that it's breaches of the membership obligations that the Ombudsman will investigate.

pinkelephant12 said:

Taking a case to the Ombudsman costs them about £300-£400 each time a complaint is upheld now, so they are more likely to try to resolve it. 

That raises an interesting question. Leases typically allow the Freeholder or their Management Company to recharge legal costs and administration costs back to leaseholders, via the Service Charge.

(So for example, when leaseholders win a legal case against their Freeholder/Management Company - the leaseholders still end up having to pay their Management Company's legal costs via their Service Charge.)

So it would be interesting to see if that £300 - £400 can be recharged to leaseholders, and is therefore is not much of a deterrent. 

Coupon-mad

Useful info, many thanks @eddddy

pinkelephant12

I agree - Complaints to The Property Ombudsman must be for a breach of a Code of Practice or Conduct e.g. poor service, after following the Managing Agent's complaints procedure and obtaining a deadlock letter. 

Regarding the fee, it depends on the wording of your documents - the lease or the management contract.  Often there will be a clause requiring the agent to act with reasonable care and skill.  If a complaint is upheld, then they won't have acted with reasonable care and skill and so they won't be able to pass on the cost.  Entirely dependent on the exact wording.  Possibly covered by insurance, depending on the policy excess?

xninjanon

Thanks all for your messages @Coupon-mad@pinkelephant12@Johnersh@eddddy . Sorry I didn't respond sooner, work has been hectic.

Tomorrow will be day 32 so I am assuming we need to be submitting the POPLA appeal tomorrow. I would really appreciate any guidance you all have on writing the appeal if possible. Thanks in advance.

@Coupon-mad re the lease agreement, I can't find anything in the documentation I have access to about the road parking, only that she has the right to use one of the parking bays. I will double-check when we write the appeal.

Coupon-mad

We can help once we see your draft POPLA appeal, based on the NEWBIES thread advice and examples.

D_P_Dance

Have you read these?

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/1053920-private-parking-companies

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

Have you complained to your MP?

xninjanon

Hi all, thanks again.

I have exported my draft appeal as images shown below, it needs some formatting and I will switch out the redacted images for non-redacted in the submitted appeal. Additionally, the screenshot of the facebook page by the spokesperson for the estate will be replaced by the original email he is quoting (I'm just in the process of chasing him for it and wanted to get this out to you all for checking as soon as possible).

Thanks for any guidance you can give me.

Coupon-mad

That's great evidence! I predict UKPC throwing in the towel.

Umkomaas

If you win at POPLA, I'd straight away consider suing UKPC for accessing your data from the DVLA without reasonable cause under GDPR/DPA regs, especially given the evidence you have accumulated. Even if you lose (unlikely, but POPLA has become more unpredictable of late), consider suing anyway.

Even if you decide not to sue, a formal complaint to the DVLA could see sanctions applied against UKPC .... they have form in that context, and must be dangling by a thinner thread than most PPCs.