Premier Park - PCN fine for overstay, help please

BigMSEFan1

Hello all,

I wonder if I could ask some help or thoughts please on a £100 PCN we received in the post from Premier Park.

I will of course send the initial standard response as given in the NEWBIES post, but wanted to add some details, and wondered if they were okay to mention in our defence.

Our family went to Home Bargains a week ago and spent around 2hrs there (actually, it was 1.20hrs in the shop but 2hrs in the car park, which I will explain). Therefore the letter says we spent 30mins too long there.

Points I was thinking to mention in addition:

1) Our family has been to Home Bargains a number of times and never actually realised there was a time limit. Agreed from going back there, there are some signs but they don't really stand out in my opinion - certainly not noticed in the 3-4 times we went there in previous months. The driver never noticed this.

2) It's a large car park surrounded by other big shops too, but it seems we happened to park in the space that came under Home Bargains with a time limit of 75 mins, and we were there for 2 hrs. However other parts of the same large car park are 3hrs allowance. Personally it was not obvious to us that part of the car park belongs specifically to Home Bargains. (note I contacted Home Bargains but they didn't want to know, stating that they don't own the car park and suggested that we appeal due to spending our time in there).

3) We actually only spent around 1hr20 mins in the shop, but the large garden chair we bought wouldn't fit into our car (a slight over-sight on our part!). Since we already bought it and left the shop, and so we literally spend over half an hour not only trying to fit in in the car but phoning family/friends who could come and assist with taking some of the chair parts (yes I know, a complete disaster and our fault!). Anyway, so this meant we were somewhat stuck till we sorted this out and therefore spent much longer there than anticipated. (we of course didn't realised the time limit too).

So, I wanted to ask if it would okay to mention the above 3 things in addition to the standard NEWBIES letter?

Any help or thoughts would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

Fruitcake

What happened when the keeper complained to the landowner/retail park management company/store manager/store CEO? That is always Plan A.

If Plan A fails, then the keeper could add a one liner to the appeal template that loading and unloading is not parking as determined by the judge in the Jopson vs Homeguard case, or save it for later.

Coupon-mad

We've seen this place on another thread in July if it's the same retail park.

The car park has ben split into two and one part allows 3 hours (different PPC, possibly MET Parking?) and the HB part only now allows 75 mins (Premier Park),

You need to search the forum and read that thread as a lot has been said about the lack of delineation between the two areas and the poster took some photos the other week, to support their appeal.

BigMSEFan1

Hi Fruitcake and Coupon-mad, thanks for you replies I really appreciate it.

@Fruitcake
>> What happened when the keeper complained to the landowner/retail park management company/store manager/store CEO? That is always Plan A.

I complained to the store CEO, his customer service manager from Head Office replied to say that they have no control as they do not operate or control this land (despite another forum member having a similar issue with the same car park, and found out the Home Bargains do actually own the land, apparently). She said I should appeal to the parking company, and let her know later on if I need anything. So basically didn't really want to know. I explained to her that another customer determined that the store does own that bit of land and contracted the parking company - I am waiting to hear but no holding my breath.

I had trouble locating the land owner via Google (lots of retail companies advertising it) but the other post says its Savills. I looked at their website for someone to contact, however its a very large company with many people to contact and I'm not sure who to complain to.

>> If Plan A fails, then the keeper could add a one liner to the appeal template that loading and unloading is not parking as determined by the judge in the Jopson vs Homeguard case, or save it for later.

Thanks that's helpful and a goo point about the loading/unloading! I'm not sure I can prove how long I was there faffing about but it's worth mentioning.

@Coupon-mad
Thanks I found it after you mentioned it, I missed this initially.
I used the info for when contacting the store's Head Office, though they seem not to be concerned with it so far.
The other post is awaiting a response, I will keep an eye on that too.

I am worried, as appealing means that if it falls through I would only have to pay the full amount, but potentially court costs too.

Thanks.

Coupon-mad

I am worried, as appealing means that if it falls through I would only have to pay the full amount, but potentially court costs too.

No it doesn't. What made you think that?

BigMSEFan1

As it would be past the 14 days, if they decide against my appeal and POPLA fails, I assumed I would be liable for the full £100, and more if it goes to a Judge and fails. Perhaps I am mistaken? Thanks

Le_Kirk

Motorists do not become liable for anything - even after a POPLA rejection and only a judge can proclaim on the case!  It is often cheaper if you lose (but why say that) because a judge will cut off the fake "admin/debt control" fees and other costs that are not allowed.

BigMSEFan1

Thanks @Le_Kirk. However if lose the case and judge deems the fine is fair, I would be liable for the full £100 and any additional costs, I guess?

Le_Kirk

The costs for small claims court are fixed in the CPRs (Civil Procedure Rules) and include a filing fee, a hearing fee and, if they are actually incurred, solicitor costs.

Coupon-mad

BigMSEFan1 said:

Thanks @Le_Kirk. However if lose the case and judge deems the fine is fair, I would be liable for the full £100 and any additional costs, I guess?

Yes. But we win 99% of cases here and have done since 2016 when we started counting.

fisherjim

It isn't a fine it's an invoice.