I think my energy provider is trying to fleece me.

gazapc

Evan3020 said:

You used £88 in July and averaged £126 a month in the spring and summer months so i suspect you should be paying a lot more.

Agree. For July the split is about £60 electricity, £28 for gas.

OP. Your gas usage will be much much higher in winter and the supplier is upping the direct debit to build up credit to cover this. If you want to maintain control then switch to a billed direct debit (i.e. the payment varies), but just be aware you will need to have the cash, or set aside, enough to cover payments. I would not be surprised if your bill ends up significantly higher than £148/month.

-

This sort of post really does demonstrate how much a shock October is going to come to many people who are not savy when it comes to energy usage and bills. The rise in April has been largely not felt because it is summer.

Evan3020

58793 - 57851 X .2963 =£279
10613 - 10428 x 11.2 x 0.0752 = £155.8
0.32 + 0.27 x 120 days = £70.8

=£505.6 for 4 months (spring summer months) so £126.4 per month, you will use a hell of a lot more in the winter.

markin

If you don't want to save up with them over summer then you need to change to variable DD, But expect large bills over winter, Most people prefer to have the cost spread out over the year.

Do you have smart meters? Are the numbers you have given actual reads and not estimated? 

Mstty

Hi Annur,

It does appear as if your fixed direct debit is set correctly, if not a little low with the upcoming price rise in October and then Jan 2023.

If you only want to pay for what you use you can always ask to go on whole bill monthly variable direct debit but this does need good financial planning for the very high bills received in winter (especially this winter with the price increases)

I would say this, a lot of people are realising what the costs may be come winter and they come to this forum with many the same questions as yourself thinking the energy companies are trying to get one over on them. In reality they are normally just trying to lessen the blow and get people used to paying more for their energy.

wrf12345

You used a 170kw elec in Jun/July which is roughly £50 plus s/c, so around £60

You used 23 units of gas but you have multiply by 11 (roughly) to get kwh, so 250kwh which is roughly £16 plus s/c, so £22. All in £82 for your last month (quick estimate).

The answer is to online chat with the energy supplier and point out you actual usage and demand a reduction in DD, if they refuse demand to talk to a manager and threaten to open a complaint. Possibly the DD is set to reflect average usage over the year (gas going up in the winter) but you will have £400 freebie from the govn and can pay one-off amounts to top up your account if necessary. £100 a month seems reasonable to cover any spikes and have a bit of credit later in the year.

Mstty

Poor advice and this could really hurt the OP financially @wrf12345

Know your yearly usage is the important figure.

How many kWh do I use and how much am I being charged per kWh. Add in the rises expected Oct and Jan 2023 to create a yearly DD fixed amount.

You should never look at a summer month and reduce bills on that basis as most only use 20-30% of their energy April-Sept.

This is the time for those on fixed DD to cushion the blow of winter and this winter will be a big blow.

I am hoping Annur can come.back with energy readings back to June 2021👍 that way a proper analysis can be performed

TheMilkmansDad

wrf12345 said:

You used a 170kw elec in Jun/July which is roughly £50 plus s/c, so around £60

You used 23 units of gas but you have multiply by 11 (roughly) to get kwh, so 250kwh which is roughly £16 plus s/c, so £22. All in £82 for your last month (quick estimate).

The answer is to online chat with the energy supplier and point out you actual usage and demand a reduction in DD, if they refuse demand to talk to a manager and threaten to open a complaint. Possibly the DD is set to reflect average usage over the year (gas going up in the winter) but you will have £400 freebie from the govn and can pay one-off amounts to top up your account if necessary. £100 a month seems reasonable to cover any spikes and have a bit of credit later in the year.

No to all of this. How can you base a fixed monthly DD amount on the cheapest usage month(s) of the years figures. You need to look at the average usage over the year.

If you follow the above advice - you're saying monthly DD around £80 for the year - that's £960 for a year. That £80 is based on a low usage month - a high usage over winter could be easily 3/4 times that. For arguments sake lets say 3 so you'd need £240 a month. Rough maths over a year (Ok - very rough maths!) £80 + £240 x 6 = £1,920. So a DD of £160 would be needed. So come winter you'd be in debt and your DD would probably be expected to be raised to £300+. 

All this of course is based on your DD amount which isn't much use - you need to look at the actual usage and tariff rates to get a more accurate picture.

This is just plain bad advise (albeit maybe with good intentions).

Annar

Mstty said:

Poor advice and this could really hurt the OP financially @wrf12345

Know your yearly usage is the important figure.

How many kWh do I use and how much am I being charged per kWh. Add in the rises expected Oct and Jan 2023 to create a yearly DD fixed amount.

You should never look at a summer month and reduce bills on that basis as most only use 20-30% of their energy April-Sept.

This is the time for those on fixed DD to cushion the blow of winter and this winter will be a big blow.

I am hoping Annur can come.back with energy readings back to June 2021👍 that way a proper analysis can be performed

Unfortunately my readings go back as far as Aug 2021 I hope this is enough.  If not I could probably ask the energy provider for more readings

9 Aug 2021 Elec 56062

9 Aug 2021 Gas 9828

8 Sep 2021 Elec 56087

8 Sep 2021 Gas 9841

8 Oct 2021 Elec 56273

8 Oct 2021 Gas 9875

9 Nov 2021 Elec 56623

9 Nov 2021 Gas 9885

8 Dec 2021 Elec 56654

8 Dec 2021 Gas 10050

8 Jan 2022 Elec 56972

8 Jan 2022 Gas 10162

8 Feb 2022 Elec 57320

8 Feb 2022 Gas 10280

8 Mar 2022 Elec 57621

8 Mar 2022 Gas 10374

Here's other info I posted earlier

Annar said:

Electricity Unit Rate is 29.63p per kWh and Standing charge is  32.14p per day

Gas Unit Rate is 7.52p per kWh and Standing charge 27.22p per day

on the 31 Mar Gas 10428  Electricty 57851

Here are someother dates

April  Gas 10454               Electricity 57937

May   Gas 10497              Electricity  58196

Jun    Gas    10590           Electricity   58623

Jul      Gas     10613         Electricity  58793

 

Ok I hope this information helps.  Thanks

QrizB

Thanks for the consumption data. I've assumed that the your August reading will show a similar in-period usage to July.

Based on the capped SVT, your total bill for the past 12 months should be around £1111 plus £250 for standing charges - so £1361.

Assuming the next 12 months sees the same consumption, and using the CI predicted capped tariff values, I get this:

(I know that's 14 months in the table, not 12, so sue me.)

Over the next 12 months, that's £2725 in energy costs plus £250 standing charges, for a total of £2975.

There are some odd things about your energy use - why is everything so high in May/Jun? why is electricity so low in Aug/Sep and Nov/Dec? - but the numbers are what they are.

If anyone else wants to try modelling this as well, feel free.

[Deleted User]

welshmoneylover said:

wrf12345 said:

You used a 170kw elec in Jun/July which is roughly £50 plus s/c, so around £60

You used 23 units of gas but you have multiply by 11 (roughly) to get kwh, so 250kwh which is roughly £16 plus s/c, so £22. All in £82 for your last month (quick estimate).

The answer is to online chat with the energy supplier and point out you actual usage and demand a reduction in DD, if they refuse demand to talk to a manager and threaten to open a complaint. Possibly the DD is set to reflect average usage over the year (gas going up in the winter) but you will have £400 freebie from the govn and can pay one-off amounts to top up your account if necessary. £100 a month seems reasonable to cover any spikes and have a bit of credit later in the year.

This is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever seen written in this forum.

Let us assume that the supplier has assessed that from, say, 1 May this year until 30 April next year, the annual cost will be £2400 or £200 a month. By now, there would be a large and increasing credit balance on the account in preparation for Winter. If the supplier was to accede to any request to pay that credit back, it would result in a much higher monthly DD payment. 

What @wrf12345 is suggesting is that the suppliers should now review millions of consumer accounts to take into account the £400 Government contribution. This is just un-necessarily time consuming, and I doubt that suppliers have the necessary IT and algorithms to do this.

What Ofgem has agreed with suppliers is that when a £67 or £66 contribution is due, the supplier will reduce, in the example above, the monthly DD amount to £200 -£66 or £134. The consumer’s account will still be credited with £200.

Chatting to CS; revising DD payments and dealing with complaints isn’t a free activity. These costs get added to consumer bills. In my view, the system that will be adopted for credit customers is simple and cheap to implement (KISS).

Consumers that are unhappy paying a monthly ‘fixed’ DD should consider paying on receipt of a bill. However, for this to work in Winter, in particular, consumers need to be very organised when it comes to putting money aside. Doing this saves nothing, and it could cost the consumer more.