Times Online Subscription Escelation

clukker

Hi who do I complain to about the subscription practice for the Times online. Is there and ombudsman or trade practice? The press one is about editorial standards not consumer practices. 

There are several hundred similar complaints on trust pilot with zero change to their practice. 

Was thinking about writing to MP or even their own or guardian consumer “champions” but wondering if there was anyone formal.

thanks,
angry middle aged man

Diamandis

What is your complaint exactly? Just that you're not getting to read their articles for free?

giraffe69

I had a reduced price subscription three or so years ago. When I went to cancel at the end of the period they made it as hard as possible. Wouldn't go back.

razord

The Times are currently telling me my payment was declined to them on the 20th July. But it wasn't - they took the money via PayPal as always. It left my bank, it shows are complete, and they're calling me constantly to nag, despite me sending proof of the payment and saying my access will be suspended in 4 days.

I guess at that point ill just open a dispute with PayPal and get rid of my sub.

The_Fat_Controller

I thought for one minute you may have a Grauniad subscription by the way you spelt escelation, LOL.

clukker

I’m an idiot and can’t spell…..escalation😬😬

@Diamandis - Apologies for the moaning post. My complaint is that their cancellation process is onerously difficult to a point that the only method of cancelling is calling them and even if you cancel your direct debit instead of cancelling access the times. They then pursue you aggressively for the outstanding debt and refuse to cancel the subscription until the debt is paid.

It’s not just me. Nearly 400 negative reviews (I can’t add links to this forum but just Google trustpilot and times online to see all the same negative reviews  with the same issue. I am so incensed with their aggressive perusing me for money that I don’t owe them that it should be escalated to the relevant supervising body. 

Is it trading standards who would investigate this?

eskbanker

clukker said:

My complaint is that their cancellation process is onerously difficult to a point that the only method of cancelling is calling them and even if you cancel your direct debit instead of cancelling access the times. They then pursue you aggressively for the outstanding debt and refuse to cancel the subscription until the debt is paid.

Cancelling a direct debit is never enough to terminate a contractual obligation, so it's not unusual for companies to pursue those who are still bound by a contract but are effectively refusing to pay.

clukker said:

Is it trading standards who would investigate this?

Possibly, if they're breaching any rules or regulations or not behaving in accordance with their Ts & Cs - what specifically are you asserting that they're doing wrong?

clukker

eskbanker said:

clukker said:

My complaint is that their cancellation process is onerously difficult to a point that the only method of cancelling is calling them and even if you cancel your direct debit instead of cancelling access the times. They then pursue you aggressively for the outstanding debt and refuse to cancel the subscription until the debt is paid.

Cancelling a direct debit is never enough to terminate a contractual obligation, so it's not unusual for companies to pursue those who are still bound by a contract but are effectively refusing to pay.

clukker said:

Is it trading standards who would investigate this?

Possibly, if they're breaching any rules or regulations or not behaving in accordance with their Ts & Cs - what specifically are you asserting that they're doing wrong?

Thanks @eskbanker

My issue is with their mode of cancellation (phone only) is unnecessarily prohibitive and onerous to a point where they will continue to charge and peruse the subscriber despite them thinking it has been cancelled. 

I had emailed them (with no response) at the same time as the cancellation of the direct debit as I had no phone yet they continued to bill me and then peruse me for payment (which they eventually forgave).

Other subscriptions services such as Audible, Netflix, Disney+ just cancel access if the subscription is not paid and do not let you rack up debt. It’s not like it’s a mobile phone contract with a fixed term you need to fulfill. Those subscription services also let you cancel the subscription relatively easily when compared to the Times.

I would have normally let this go but their incessant calls and emailed combined with the 450 other complaints on trustpilot 95% are 1-2stars which have the same complaint show a systemic and predatory practice to trick people into maintaining their subscription despite the obvious desire not to do so. My hope is to pressure them to appropriate trade body in a hope their practice will change so this doesn’t happen to others. 

The number of complaints online really surprised me as I thought it was just me being a thick and I think the company should change their bad practice.

I would like to provide the trustpilot link but I’m not allowed on this forum.

user1977

Their terms are pretty clear, I don't think it's unlawful for them to require a phone call for cancellation - in which case I'm not sure what you could expect anybody else to do about it, other than warn unsuspecting punters before they sign up.

If you want the law changed to make that practice unlawful, then yes, it would be Parliament which would do it and so contacting your MP is about as much as you can do.

Manxman_in_exile

@clukker -  have you actually 'phoned them to cancel and that hasn't worked, or are you simply complaining that the only way to cancel is by 'phone, but you haven't tried that yet?  (Sorry - but you haven't explained the problem very clearly).

If you haven't actually 'phoned them to cancel, do so now.

If you have already 'phoned them but that hasn't worked (or they never pick up or whatever) email and/or write to them explaining that you have done everything you can to cancel the contrcat according to their prescribed method, but that it appears that they take no notice of your cancellation (or never pick up the 'phone etc) and that they appear to be deliberately making it impossible for you to cancel the contract by the method they require.  That being the case - and as they are obviously not acting in good faith - tell them to take your email/letter as notice of cancellation of your subscription with effect from (whatever the relevant notice period is).

Cancel your DD after that notice has expired.

Igore all 'phone calls from them.

eskbanker

clukker said:
I had emailed them (with no response) at the same time as the cancellation of the direct debit as I had no phone yet they continued to bill me and then peruse me for payment (which they eventually forgave).

[...]

I would have normally let this go but their incessant calls...

How do they call you incessantly if you don't have a phone?  Surely on the first time they succeeded in getting through to you you'd just have notified them that you wished to cancel the subscription with immediate effect (subject to the required notice or minimum period)?

clukker said:
Other subscriptions services such as Audible, Netflix, Disney+ just cancel access if the subscription is not paid and do not let you rack up debt. [...] Those subscription services also let you cancel the subscription relatively easily when compared to the Times.

The practices of selected other companies have no relevance here, and they obviously won't have clear terms stating:

What happens if I default on a payment?

i) If you default on any payment, we may take whatever action necessary to recover our losses, including:

– termination of your subscription;
– charging you for any outstanding amount remaining on the unexpired portion of your 12 month minimum subscription term (subject to your subscription and/or offer terms); or

– sending your details to third party debt collectors.

clukker said:
It’s not like it’s a mobile phone contract with a fixed term you need to fulfill.

I think you'll find that it's very much like a mobile phone contract with a fixed (minimum) term you need to fulfil:

Your minimum subscription term will be made known to you before you agree to purchase your subscription and will be confirmed to you in your welcome email.