Dealer sold car on after PCP ended. 6 m later it got parking charge. Court case chasing prior keeper

Trainerman

dadsma said:

Yes that seems logical. 

So, for the court defence we will show that in Feb 2021
1. BMW collected and auctioned off the car via BCA
and
2. BMW confirmed the pcp agreement had ended.

I don’t understand the legal position here. Does the fact that seven months later my friend was still shown as the registered keeper expose him to liability for the parking charge as alleged by the ppc?

In my opinion, no. The fault is not his, and this is provable. They may well drop this early, as long as he can prove the dates. See the  @Coupon-mad post above yours. Bang on the money

Coupon-mad

I don’t understand the legal position here. Does the fact that seven months later my friend was still shown as the registered keeper expose him to liability for the parking charge as alleged by the ppc?

Yes but no. It's rebuttable, as I explained already.

And there's no such thing as a 'court defence'.  It is a witness statement and evidence and includes a whole lot more that the (1) and (2) you mention. For example your friend will also need to append evidence that they told the parking firm before court action commenced.

Which PPC?

dadsma

Premier Parking Logistics with DCBL handling the legal stuff.

dadsma

The Notice to Driver was 15 August 2021 and the Notice to Keeper 27 October 2021 which  if I calculate correctly seems to be at least 2 weeks longer than the time allowed by POFA 2012 for service of the NTK

I worked it out that 28 days beginning 16 Aug 2021 is 12 Sep
then 28 days beginning 13 Sep is 11 Oct. Therefore, I think the NTK dated 27 Oct is out of time.

Extract from POFA Schedule 4:

“4)The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

Coupon-mad

Totally agree.

That has to go into the WS as well.

Even if the D had been the 'keeper' (POFA definition) on the material date (which they were not) they can't be held liable anyway!  They certainly can't be held to have been driving, given that car had been handed back six months earlier and sold at auction by a third party to someone else entirely.

Johnersh

It looks as though the ppc are trying to rely on PoFA on the basis of a keepers failure to supply driver details and service address (the former owner still being named as the keeper)

That is obviously misguided. Pofa does contain provisions for stolen vehicles. Thus, the legislators have envisaged circumstances where the recipient of a PCN:

* factually could not have been driving
* cannot possibly know who was.

This is analogous. 

Further, if advised that BMW had taken possession and sent to BCA did they make enquiries of them? No they just issued. Its sharp practice.

Get the defence in, then you have the option of applying for summary judgment and seeking your costs. 

Nearlyold

patient_dream said:

Who is the PPC and legal who are pestering you ?

A PCP agreement is no different to the "never never" in that you do not own the car until the loan is fully paid whereby you can pass the car back to the lender. OR YOU CAN PAY A LUMP sum called a balloon payment to keep the car

Until the payment agreement is satisfied the finance company owns the car

I am sure a judge will have great fun with this. No doubt your friend has the final signed off paperwork which is dated

Whilst is is true that the majority of PCP agreements are modified Hire Purchase or Conditional Sale contracts a significant number are based on Fixed Sum/Term agreements aka Personal Loans.

If the borrower doesn't want to keep the car at the end of the fixed term rather than having a hand back to the owner (Finance Company) option the Finance Company commits in the contract to offering to buy the car back at a fixed price equivalent to the balloon (with a reduction for any extra mileage or excess damage) from the owner (i.e. the borrower) at the end of the initial term.

This type of PCP is typically offered when the Finance Company want to avoid the risk of a VT.

Umkomaas

dadsma said:

Premier Parking Logistics with DCBL handling the legal stuff.

Wally Wilkins, little capacity to see beyond his need to bully motorists into submission, taking their payment to get him off their backs. 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/birmingham-car-clamper-ive-made-224203

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/local-news/ex-birmingham-zulu-ill-always-be-seen-183205

Moved from football thuggery to the parking version. Easier pickings with a lesser risk of a kicking!

Like with all bullies continue standing up to him, he'll eventually run away. 🏃‍♂️ 

dadsma

Johnersh said:

It looks as though the ppc are trying to rely on PoFA on the basis of a keepers failure to supply driver details and service address (the former owner still being named as the keeper)

That is obviously misguided. Pofa does contain provisions for stolen vehicles. Thus, the legislators have envisaged circumstances where the recipient of a PCN:

* factually could not have been driving
* cannot possibly know who was.

This is analogous. 

Further, if advised that BMW had taken possession and sent to BCA did they make enquiries of them? No they just issued. Its sharp practice.

Get the defence in, then you have the option of applying for summary judgment and seeking your costs. 

We’re not sure what to do next. When is the right time to apply for summary judgement and seek costs?

My friend acknowledged the court papers on 1st July and outlined his defence to which DCBL replied -

” Having reviewed the content of your defence, we write to inform you that our client intends to proceed with the claim. 

 In due course, the Court will direct both parties to each file a directions questionnaire. In preparation for that, please find attached a copy of the Claimant's, which we confirm has been filed with the Court.

 Without Prejudice to the above, in order to assist the Court in achieving its overriding objective, our client may be prepared to settle this case - in the event you wish to discuss settlement, please call us”

So do we need to be proactive in some way or wait to be contacted by the court?

Coupon-mad

That's standard guff.

Not sure how and when to make an application for Summary Judgment (and to ask for those costs back from the Claimant) but @Johnersh is a solicitor so hopefully he will pop back to explain what form is needed and what sort of thing to say. 

Not that anyone here gives actual legal advice on this forum.  Just personal opinion, experience and recommended actions and wording.