Money Moral Dilemma: Should someone who earns a decent wage use food banks?

GaleSF63

According to its website our local foodbank doesn't ask for referrals. 

zagfles

arnoldy said:

Lots of comments here about "don't judge" but these comments are designed to shut down reasonable debate, a form of cancel culture. Why should people not have options that differ about standards, morals, responsibility, kindness etc?

 

Also if you're not going to judge the reasons why people use foodbanks, then you're in no position to judge the benefits system either. If you don't understand why people use foodbanks then you're in no position to point the finger of blame.

It could be low benefits, it could be bad budgeting, it could be drug, alcohol or gambling addiction, it could be simply not claiming benefits they're entitled to. If you don't bother to find out then you're just addressing the symptoms not the underlying cause. Give a man a fish etc...

honestcove

My local food banks work on a referral system for people in “crisis” - not defined - with referrers including GP practices I.e. on health grounds. So, potentially, someone on a good wage but who spends it all on drugs and as a result is malnourished could get a legitimate GP referral.

pumpkin89

keithyno.1 said:

No, you shouldn’t tell her she’s selfish. It’s her life and her finances to manage in whatever way she sees fit. Her priorities are her own and nobody else’s.

How would you like it if she made comments to you about what you choose to do with your life and your money?

The point is that if you use a food bank, you are not choosing what to do with your money but with somebody else's money.  They have made that money available in good faith that it will used by someone who needs it, not just someone who chooses to overspend and be subsidised.

Danien

PennyForThem_2 said:

Danien said:

I've just helped my cousin go through her finances. She hasn't been eating properly but is too proud to go to a food bank.

She was made redundant from her job, but hadn't been there long enough to get redundancy. She is now claiming universal credit while she tries to find another job. She was on low pay when working, so had not built up any savings. She asked me to help because before becoming too sick to work (not sure why someone put disabled in inverted commas, as someone with a rare, deteriorating, heart- lung disease on oxygen, I find that pretty insulting) I used to work in welfare rights.

I went through her finances and this is what I came up with:

She's on UC, her rent for her tiny flat is paid, but she still has to pay 20% of her council tax. She has to pay the normal household bills water, energy, tv licence, contents insurance. She doesn’t smoke, can't afford to drink, has no car. She has to buy a bus pass monthly so she can travel for job searching. She does have two cats and pays pet insurance for them of £30 a month.

She gets £334 UC after rent is paid. Her bills total £275 a month. Her bus pass is £47.50. This leaves her £12.41 a month for everything else, food, clothing, household items. Even if she rehomed her cats (I've been buying cat food for her) she would only have £42.41 a month. Come October if still unemployed she will likely have nothing after bills.

Please don't be prejudiced against those on benefits. Please don't think that benefits are generous, because in most cases they are not. My cousin is out most days looking for work (UC demands this). Whichever poster said that governments shouldn't increase benefits and people should be able to look after themselves are frankly either idiotic, naive, delusional or cruel. 

Should the hypothetical person use a food bank? Who knows until you've been through their income and expenditure. Do they have debts they are desperately trying to pay? If so suggest they call stepchange. Are they bad at budgeting? Then offer, gently and non judgementally to help. Don't say ' you shouldn't be using a food bank', say 'It makes me sad that you're needing to use a food bank, please let me help you go through your budget to see if together we can make things a bit easier for you', or refer them somewhere where they can help with budgeting - there are even websites and apps that can help, so search them out and have them ready to offer if she's too embarrassed to go through finances with someone she knows. Go with several options. Be kind and understanding. If you start from a place of judgement she won't listen and will become defensive.

Sorry for the long post. Having helped many people with benefits, debt and budgeting, this is something I feel very strongly about.

Get her to ditch the pet insurance - if she is on benefits then PDSA would help if her cats had a health problem.
https://www.pdsa.org.uk/what-we-do
https://www.pdsa.org.uk/what-we-do/treat

Pets are an important member of a family but pet insurance is a luxury if you cannot afford basics for yourself.

Thanks, I'll tell her that. 

Vv33

I earn a good wage, never dream of going to a food bank, better believe currently on maternity leave with first child and I’m struggling. Pride is hindering me from accessing the food bank- where I’ve sent my own clients!! But I’m in need- and if I can get some groceries free- would be appreciated. 

zagfles

pumpkin89 said:

keithyno.1 said:

No, you shouldn’t tell her she’s selfish. It’s her life and her finances to manage in whatever way she sees fit. Her priorities are her own and nobody else’s.

How would you like it if she made comments to you about what you choose to do with your life and your money?

The point is that if you use a food bank, you are not choosing what to do with your money but with somebody else's money.  They have made that money available in good faith that it will used by someone who needs it, not just someone who chooses to overspend and be subsidised.

Indeed - it's like the advice not to give to beggars on the streets, and instead give to a homeless charity. The point is that if you give directly to beggars you could just be feeding their drink/drug habit (if they have one) and be doing more harm than good. So instead give to a charity who can help with the underlying problem.

It's not much different if you pay for peoples' essentials without looking into why they can't pay themselves. If it's because they're on a low income/minimum benefits and they've had unexpected bills eg new fridge needed, fine. If it's because they want more money to spend on getting their nails done etc, well not really fine IMO, they should be taught to budget and prioritise, but at least no harm done. But if it's because they want more money to spend on drink/drugs/cigarettes/gambling, then you're doing more harm than good.

Stuff like high excise duty on tobacco, minimum alcohol pricing etc are well supported by charities and people who understand these issues. But think about the point of them - they're to make alcohol/tobacco less affordable. If you give people money, or pay for other essentials like food effectively giving them more to spend on their habit, then you're doing the opposite. You're making alcohol/tobacco etc more affordable for them.

Personally I would never give or lend money to anyone unless I fully understood the reason why they need it. And I would never give to any charity who did similar, eg if a foodbank which doles out food without questioning why it's needed.

zagfles

Vv33 said:

I earn a good wage, never dream of going to a food bank, better believe currently on maternity leave with first child and I’m struggling. Pride is hindering me from accessing the food bank- where I’ve sent my own clients!! But I’m in need- and if I can get some groceries free- would be appreciated. 

Check your benefits entitlement: https://www.entitledto.co.uk

You should be entitled to a reasonable amount in UC with a child if your income is low, inc help with rent etc.

Ringo90

keithyno.1 said:

No, you shouldn’t tell her she’s selfish. It’s her life and her finances to manage in whatever way she sees fit. Her priorities are her own and nobody else’s.

It's her finances, but the food of the food bank is not strictly hers or destined to her. So enough with all this "mind your own business", this is everyone's business.
According to your and other commenters' moral compass if I earn £3000 per month, I can just spend it all on expensive clothing, videogames and luxury dining and then turn to benefits, charity and food banks. And they shouldn't judge me because it's my finances and I use them as I please, those clothes were "my priority" so now other people need to pay for my food because yeah I still need to eat.
Don't take me wrong, we're human and we all make bad choices, but sometimes we must accept the consequences to be able to learn something.

Danien

arnoldy said:

Lots of comments here about "don't judge" but these comments are designed to shut down reasonable debate, a form of cancel culture. Why should people not have options that differ about standards, morals, responsibility, kindness etc?

 

Oh dear. I believe 'don't judge' is intended to be advice, not a mandatory instruction, primarily intended for the person in the situation given, who wants to help their friend. People often become defensive when someone is judgemental towards them and then won't accept the help.

Anyone can choose whether or not to accept or ignore whatever advice or opinion that is given. It is not 'cancel culture', which in you saying that also seems to be designed to try and shut down debate. Just state your view.

Cancel culture is where someone is actively shunned, looses social media accounts, their income, job contracts etc because of an opinion they have shared. Hence they are 'cancelled'. Cancel culture is a scourge at the moment, and I speak as a liberal. We won't get anywhere in society if shut down debate and make an enemy of someone just because their opinions differ to ours. The only caveat to that is when someone expresses discriminatory or offensive views, which should be shut down, they can have those opinions, they just shouldn't share them if they are wise.