County Court Claim Received

jme85

Fruitcake said:

You need to explain to the judge what PoFA means, because they may not know, so write it out in full, including the year, followed by (PoFA) in brackets the first time you mention it. After that, just use the abbreviation without brackets.

Quote the relevant parts of the PoFA as well (chapter and verse as it were).

The defendant needs to read and re-read until they understand what this means, as well as understanding the rest of the template.

I suggest you also mention the land is a railway asset covered by Railway Byelaws, then quote section/para 14 and explain that the keeper cannot be liable for a breach of byelaws as I explained earlier.

The idea is to counter anything the claimant might throw up later and try to bamboozle the judge into thinking the PoFA is irrelevant because byelaws apply.

I am struggling to find the relevant section/para. You refer to 14, but when I read that section, it talks about creditos etc....

14(1)If—

(a)the creditor is by virtue of paragraph 13(2) unable to exercise the right to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges mentioned in the notice to keeper, and

(b)the conditions mentioned in sub-paragraph (2) below are met,

the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer.

(2)The conditions are that—

(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;

(b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; and

(c)the vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.

(3)In sub-paragraph (2)(a) “the relevant period” is the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the documents required by paragraph 13(2) are given to the creditor.

(4)For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2)(c) a vehicle is to be presumed not to be a stolen vehicle at the material time, unless the contrary is proved.

(5)The notice to hirer must—

(a)inform the hirer that by virtue of this paragraph any unpaid parking charges (being parking charges specified in the notice to keeper) may be recovered from the hirer;

(b)refer the hirer to the information contained in the notice to keeper;

(c)warn the hirer that if, after the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to hirer is given, the amount of unpaid parking charges referred to in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(f) or 9(2)(f) (as the case may be) has not been paid in full, the creditor will (if any applicable requirements are met) have the right to recover from the hirer so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

(d)inform the hirer of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;

(e)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment may be made; and

(f)specify the date on which the notice is sent (if it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).

(6)The documents mentioned in sub-paragraph (2)(a) must be given by—

(a)handing them to the hirer;

(b)leaving them at an address which is either—

(i)an address specified in the statement of liability mentioned in paragraph 13(2)(c) as an address at which documents may be given to the hirer; or

(ii)an address at which documents relating to civil proceedings could properly be served on the hirer under Civil Procedure Rules; or

(c)sending them by post to such an address so that they are delivered to that address within the relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (2)(a).

(7)In sub-paragraph (5)(d) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—

(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the hirer about the notice or any matter contained in it; and

(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the hirer to independent adjudication or arbitration.

KeithP

I think all that detailed analysis is best left to Witness Statement time.

At this stage, of producing a Defence, all you need just what you posted yesterday, but with the expansion of the POFA initialisation.

Fruitcake

Perhaps I didn't explain it well.

The subject of the sentence, 

"I suggest you also mention the land is a railway asset covered by Railway Byelaws, then quote section/para 14 ..."

was Railway Byelaws, not the PoFA, therefore my reference to section/para 14 was to section/para 14 of the Railway Byelaws. It is short, and explains that the driver can, and the owner may be liable. It makes no mention of the keeper, therefore there can be no keeper liability where byelaws apply.

Trainerman

And for future reference, simply in your head replace the words "the creditor" with "the scam artist"

jme85

KeithP said:

jme85 said:

My wife received a county court claim form, issue date 20th July 2022...

With a Claim Issue Date of 20th July, you have until Monday 8th August to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 22nd August 2022 to file your Defence.

That's almost four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Hello Keith, 

I have looked at the newbie post and I cannot find where to send my defence. I am sure I have seen the section on this before, but for some reason I can't seem to find it now

Umkomaas

jme85 said:

KeithP said:

jme85 said:

My wife received a county court claim form, issue date 20th July 2022...

With a Claim Issue Date of 20th July, you have until Monday 8th August to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 22nd August 2022 to file your Defence.

That's almost four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Hello Keith, 

I have looked at the newbie post and I cannot find where to send my defence. I am sure I have seen the section on this before, but for some reason I can't seem to find it now

It's contained in the first post of the Template Defence Announcement, point number 4 of the section headed 'submitting your defence'. 

jme85

Umkomaas said:

jme85 said:

KeithP said:

jme85 said:

My wife received a county court claim form, issue date 20th July 2022...

With a Claim Issue Date of 20th July, you have until Monday 8th August to file an Acknowledgment of Service but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 22nd August 2022 to file your Defence.

That's almost four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service instructions.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Hello Keith, 

I have looked at the newbie post and I cannot find where to send my defence. I am sure I have seen the section on this before, but for some reason I can't seem to find it now

It's contained in the first post of the Template Defence Announcement, point number 4 of the section headed 'submitting your defence'. 

Thanks Umkomaas 

So just before I send my defence, this is what I have for section 2 and 3 (do I leave in the facts as known to the defendant text?:

1. The parking charges referred to in this claim did not arise from any agreement of terms. The charge and the claim was an unexpected shock. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.  It is denied that any conduct by the driver was a breach of any prominent term and it is denied that this Claimant (understood to have a bare licence as managers) has standing to sue or form contracts in their own name. Liability is denied, whether or not the Claimant is claiming 'keeper liability', which is unclear from the Particulars.

 

The facts as known to the Defendant:

2. It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question but was not the driver of the vehicle at the time.

 

3. The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence. A keeper who was not driving cannot be held liable for this parking charge because railway land is not 'relevant land' as defined in Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. There is no 'keeper liability' here.

 

4. The facts in this defence come from the Defendant's own knowledge and honest belief.  To pre-empt the usual template responses from this serial litigator: the court process is outside of the Defendant's life experience and they cannot be criticised for adapting some pre-written wording from a reliable advice resource. The Claimant is urged not to patronise the Defendant with (ironically template) unfounded accusations of not understanding their defence. 

5. With regard to template statements, the Defendant observes after researching other parking claims, that the Particulars of Claim ('POC') set out a cut-and-paste incoherent statement of case.  Prior to this - and in breach of the pre-action protocol for 'Debt' Claims - no copy of the contract (sign) accompanied any Letter of Claim.  The POC is sparse on facts about the allegation which makes it difficult to respond in depth at this time; however the claim is unfair, objectionable, generic and inflated.  

Coupon-mad

do I leave in the facts as known to the defendant text?

Yes because sub-headings help the Judge navigate what is a long defence.

Your draft tells the Judge nothing else except 'I'm not liable because I wasn't driving'.  Normally we see more than that, such as a paragraph about Henry Greenslade's words from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 (search the forum for Greenslade defence and change the results filter to NEWEST).

And I'd expect a paragraph stating what you know about the incident from the driver telling you about it.  e.g. no signs seen because it was dark, or they were only dropping off a passenger, or the PCN is for allegedly parking out of a bay but the markings were not clearly delineated...etc. 

I'd never rely on a bare assertion that you weren't driving and no other points/facts.  It's a risky approach as a Judge may not agree or get that this is not relevant land.

jme85

Coupon-mad said:

do I leave in the facts as known to the defendant text?

Yes because sub-headings help the Judge navigate what is a long defence.

Your draft tells the Judge nothing else except 'I'm not liable because I wasn't driving'.  Normally we see more than that, such as a paragraph about Henry Greenslade's words from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 (search the forum for Greenslade defence and change the results filter to NEWEST).

And I'd expect a paragraph stating what you know about the incident from the driver telling you about it.  e.g. no signs seen because it was dark, or they were only dropping off a passenger, or the PCN is for allegedly parking out of a bay but the markings were not clearly delineated...etc. 

I'd never rely on a bare assertion that you weren't driving and no other points/facts.  It's a risky approach as a Judge may not agree or get that this is not relevant land.

Wow, thanks for that. Literally identical case to mine. So I think I can just use this exactly as it was on the other post:

The facts as known to the Defendant:
2.  It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question on the date of the alleged parking contravention, however the defendant was not driving said vehicle on the date in question and does not know who was.

3. The NCP operated car park at Rayleigh Railway Station is located upon land belonging to the railway and therefore the car park is not ‘relevant land’ as defined by paragraph 3 of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘PoFA’), being subject instead to Railway Byelaws. 

4. As Railway Land is not ‘Relevant Land’ for the purposes of the POFA, it is not possible to use POFA to transfer any driver's liability to the keeper. It therefore follows that there can be no keeper liability 

5. The driver has never been identified by the Claimant. The Claimant has no right to assert that the Defendant is liable based on ‘reasonable assumption’. Parking and Traffic Appeals Service and Parking on Private Land Appeals Lead Adjudicator and barrister, Henry Michael Greenslade, clarified that with regards to keeper liability, “There is no ‘reasonable presumption’ in law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver and operators should never suggest anything of the sort” (2015).

jme85

Can I send this defence on behalf of my wife? Or does she need to send it? Same question for the actual court date, will I be allowed to speak for her?