Who inherits?

getmore4less

.google  section 33 wills act

p00hsticks

74jax said:

MrsDocka said:

Hi all,
I need some advice please as I'm completely clueless. 
My dad was taking care of my grandma until he passed in 2015. Then my uncle moved in & took care of her until she passed in August 21.
Who administered (or has started to administer) grandma's estate?

 It wasn't until my uncle's recent passing that grandma's will has been discovered, in which she leaves everything to my dad & not her other children. That in itself I do not understand!
Do you mean you don't understand why, or the wording? If it is the wording, then in basic terms, everything she owned she wanted your dad to have. Usually there's wording after this about what would happen if he predeceased her.  Do you know the solicitor who drew up the will? 


My questions are where do we stand with the will, what happens now & are we allowed to distribute her estate fairly? 
Fairly to who? The person who wrote the will, should have their wishes carried out. It doesn't matter what other people think.  It is the last wishes of someone and you may not understand the reasons but they were your grandmother's. 
If anyone could advise us on next steps please, I would very much appreciate it. I have never had to deal with this before. Thanks in advance.

I'd first be looking at who administered your grandmas estate. Could uncle have found the will, not liked its contents, and conveniently ignored his mother's wishes?

A copy of the will is needed for the wording about what was to happen if your dad predeceased her. 

This ^^^

It will make a difference as to whether or not any steps have already been taken to deal withyour grandmothers estate - who is named as executor, was an application for a grant of representation (in the perceived absence of a will) made, were any estate assets distributed and to whom etc...?.  If nothing was done then it should be straghtforward from here, but it may be trickier if the discovery of the will means there is some 'unpicking' to be done.

Marcon

theoretica said:

SiliconChip said:

It took a bit of finding, but it appears in this situation that it will be treated as if your grandma had died intestate, so the normal rules of intestacy should be followed - which will hopefully allow for an equitable distribution of the estate to surviving family.

See here https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm12084 

"Lapse occurs when a gift made in a Will fails because of the death of the legatee or devisee in the testator’s (IHTM12001) lifetime. Where the legacy or devise is anything other than residue, that property will normally fall into residue.

If a gift of residue lapses, the property devolves as it would on intestacy (IHTM12101)."

The exception to this is where a gift in a will is to someone's children, in which case their share passes down the line of descent to their children.  So the OP and siblings would inherit their father's share.

However, if they are all adults and not in receipt of benefits they can look into a deed of variation and give some of the estate to other relatives.

If they are in receipt of benefits they can still do a deed of variation, but may need to advise the DWP of what has happened - it could impact on means-tested benefits.

Choirgrl

1. As others have said, the wording of your grandmother’s Will is important.  Clauses can be written so that the inheritance doesn’t automatically go to the next generation. Who ever is the Executor should make sure they are clear how the Will is worded and what the implication is.

2. as others have also said, it’s also important to establish what, if anything, has been done with regards to your Grandmother’s Estate between her death and now. From what you say (and don’t say) my guess is that nothing has been done, but you need to establish that. If anything has already been done, then as the previous posters say, it may need to be ‘unpicked’ although it may be that way at has been done actually reflects why you would like to happen anyway ( see 4 and 5 below)

3. The responsibility for administering her Estate is with whoever she appointed as Executor. If that was your father, was there a reserve Executor? If there was, they will need to sort everything out. If there wasn’t then someone else will need to apply to the Probate Office for ‘letters of administration with Will annexed’. There is an order of priority for who can do that. Assuming that the legacy to your father does indeed go down the generation to you and your siblings, it would be the group of you who are the first entitled to apply. You can decide between you if you all apply ( to maximum of four), or if just one or two of you do. It’s usually easier to have no more than two.

4. As others have said, if everyone who is legally entitled to inherit agrees, the Estate can be divided up in a way that is different to what is in the Will - what you refer to as a ‘fairer’ way. If the Estate came under the rule of Intestacy, it would be split equally between your grandmother’s children, and where any of those those children had predeceased their share would be split equally between their children. In that scenario, if your father and uncle were your grandmother’s only children, half would have been split  between you and your siblings, and half would have gone to your Uncle, and then been part of his Estate when he died. You might decide that was a ‘fair’ split, although you could equally decide to split the whole into equal shares for everyone in that second generation ( you, your siblings and cousins) or based on some other calculation of what you thought ‘fair’.

5. If there is agreement to change the distribution from what is in the Will, it is important that this is documented by the person administering the Estate. That could be via a deed of variation, or it could be that everyone legally entitled to inherit signs a document saying they agree to a different split.  The key thing is that their agreement is documented so that the Administrator is protected from anyone coming back later and claiming they did things incorrectly. (As others have noted, if anyone of the legally entitled beneficiaries are on means tested benefits, they need to check out what the implications of agreeing to a different split would be.

Apologies for length, but there are a number of potential variables here. Hope this helps, and best of luck getting things sorted out. 

Sea_Shell

On point 4.   If one (or more) beneficiary wants to do what they think is best (right), in respect of their portion, AIUI, they don't ALL need to agree.

So if one doesn't want to play ball, the others can still do a DoV in respect of their inheritances.

Does a DoV involving multiple beneficiaries take the form of one document, signed by all?  Or should each person do their own?

Choirgrl

Sea_Shell said:

On point 4.   If one (or more) beneficiary wants to do what they think is best (right), in respect of their portion, AIUI, they don't ALL need to agree.

So if one doesn't want to play ball, the others can still do a DoV in respect of their inheritances.

Does a DoV involving multiple beneficiaries take the form of one document, signed by all?  Or should each person do their own?

Oh yes, important point re not everyone having to agree.

Re Do , my understanding is that an instrument of variation that has to meet the requirements of the Inheritance Tax Act is one document signed by all required to sign. (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/373615/IOV2.pdf)

I’m less sure about in other circumstances, but there would be benefits from a transparency point of view to everyone signing the same document- that way everyone signing is clear they are agreeing to the same thing.

  If it’s impractical for everyone to sign the same physical piece of paper then there could be a clause included for it to be ‘executed in parts’. That would mean that each person could sign  an individual copy of the same agreement, which is excited once they have all signed.

SevenOfNine

Choirgrl said:

Sea_Shell said:

On point 4.   If one (or more) beneficiary wants to do what they think is best (right), in respect of their portion, AIUI, they don't ALL need to agree.

So if one doesn't want to play ball, the others can still do a DoV in respect of their inheritances.

Does a DoV involving multiple beneficiaries take the form of one document, signed by all?  Or should each person do their own?

Oh yes, important point re not everyone having to agree.

Re Do , my understanding is that an instrument of variation that has to meet the requirements of the Inheritance Tax Act is one document signed by all required to sign. (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/373615/IOV2.pdf)

I’m less sure about in other circumstances, but there would be benefits from a transparency point of view to everyone signing the same document- that way everyone signing is clear they are agreeing to the same thing.

  If it’s impractical for everyone to sign the same physical piece of paper then there could be a clause included for it to be ‘executed in parts’. That would mean that each person could sign  an individual copy of the same agreement, which is excited once they have all signed.

One variation signed by all beneficiaries who would be adversely affected.

A solicitor did ours, wanted to be sure it was watertight & the fee was a drop in the ocean in relation to the sum being redirected.