Can 118 118 do this legally? They’re attempting to take TWO payments in ONE month

tulipchickuk

MalMonroe said:

You are covered by the Direct Debit guarantee - info in link below -

https://www.directdebit.co.uk/direct-debit-explained/direct-debit-guarantee/

Organisations should give at least ten working days notice of any changes to direct debit payments, did that happen here? 

As you have posted this on 22 July when they are due to take payment on 29th. 

Although it's perfectly legal for them to do this (otherwise they'd not be in business very long), whenever you receive such a notification you can always phone them and say that their new arrangement does not suit your personal circumstances.

As with my energy company who are often contacting me to say they've changed my direct debit amount to a random figure. I send an email to say I don't want to pay that figure but I'll increase my payment to a figure to suit me, not them. (I'm dreading October!)

You don't have time to send an email and barely have enough time for a telephone conversation now as I feel they must have contacted you some time ago about this. But in any event I'd phone them on Monday and say it's just not on. Especially as you have made one payment already in July. 

If they have not complied with the terms and conditions of the Direct Debit guarantee by not giving you sufficient notice and then still taking your money anyway, they'll have to pay it back. 

thank you for this I did not know about the 10 day notice and I have quoted that to 118 I cancel the direct debit and I will reinstate it today in time for the next payment which I have asked to be the seventh of each month as I get paid on the sixth

tulipchickuk

Vinknut said:

They should have forwarded the next payment date to the 29th of August.

Not many people could afford to have, for example, two mortgage direct debits go out in the same month.

Whenever I've had DD dates changed (or requested a date change) it has always been worked so that there's still only one payment taken per calendar month.

that’s what I think too

TadleyBaggie

eskbanker said:

So instead of the due date being 25/26 days after payday, it'll be 22/23 instead, and you won't have to make two payments between your pay on 6 July and 6 August (or in any other gap between monthly pay dates)?  Genuinely not understanding the inconvenience in these circumstances?

Precisely my thoughts after the OP posted the actual pay dates. In the past the salary  on the 6th paid the loan in the 1st of the next month, now it will be just taken a couple of days earlier. Look on the bright side, the loan will now be paid off 3 days earlier!

Sandtree

eskbanker said:

Sandtree said:

eskbanker said:

tulipchickuk said:

we’re letting you know we will be changing your payment due date from 1st to the 29th of every month

So it'll be a one-off 28 day gap between payment dates, just like it is in March (three years out of every four)?

I get the argument that the 29th may be less convenient for some than the 1st, but that's a slightly different argument from objecting to two payments that happen to bookend one calendar month....

But most people being paid monthly will have had a salary between those two payment dates whereas changing the payment dates by pulling it forward is going to result in one months salary having to cover two payments

But it's only being pulled forward by a few days - so the double payment from one salary is only an issue for those paid between the 29th of one month and the 1st of the next.  In other words, the problem is really only where two card payments are being taken in the month between salary payments rather than a calendar month as such, which should only apply to the minority of people, although it will undoubtedly be a pain for them....

Though in my experience is that most salary payments are backended in the month and so yes its likely to be under 50% of customers as the "minority" technically means but its still going to be a notable percentage of customers.

In theory I also understand the issuer's point about giving more time in the event of a bounce of the DD but in practice I wonder how many will raise the funds via another means and so pay on time and if the cost of that sort of emergency funding for those using a subprime card will be less than the impact of a late payment notice to CRAs and associated fee.

Brie

The same thing has happened occasionally with credit cards.  I know that Barclaycard warned customers a few years back that there would be a DD on both the 1st & 31st of December.  Just when most people don't have the spare cash generally.  Except that some people do get their normally end of the month pay sent through early due to Christmas holidays. 

The line that Bcard took was that having given everyone affected adequate notice they could get the date changed if necessary. 

born_again

tulipchickuk said:

MalMonroe said:

You are covered by the Direct Debit guarantee - info in link below -

https://www.directdebit.co.uk/direct-debit-explained/direct-debit-guarantee/

Organisations should give at least ten working days notice of any changes to direct debit payments, did that happen here? 

As you have posted this on 22 July when they are due to take payment on 29th. 

Although it's perfectly legal for them to do this (otherwise they'd not be in business very long), whenever you receive such a notification you can always phone them and say that their new arrangement does not suit your personal circumstances.

As with my energy company who are often contacting me to say they've changed my direct debit amount to a random figure. I send an email to say I don't want to pay that figure but I'll increase my payment to a figure to suit me, not them. (I'm dreading October!)

You don't have time to send an email and barely have enough time for a telephone conversation now as I feel they must have contacted you some time ago about this. But in any event I'd phone them on Monday and say it's just not on. Especially as you have made one payment already in July. 

If they have not complied with the terms and conditions of the Direct Debit guarantee by not giving you sufficient notice and then still taking your money anyway, they'll have to pay it back. 

thank you for this I did not know about the 10 day notice and I have quoted that to 118 I cancel the direct debit and I will reinstate it today in time for the next payment which I have asked to be the seventh of each month as I get paid on the sixth

Note it only say's "normally 10 working days" Not it has to be.
Just checked my reminder from EON on DD sent 27th, due 3rd. which is 5 working days.

I would at least make the min payment by the 29th to stop any late payment fee, as you have cancelled the DD. For which they also may have a bounced DD fee.

cymruchris

tulipchickuk said:

many thanks for all the comments to clarify they are changing the date permanently till the 29th so this month it will be two payments in one month. It’s very inconvenient as I actually get paid on the sixth. I have emailed them but I’m yet to receive a reply

In my previous posts I was clear where you were coming from had you been paid on the 1st of the month, but now that you've given us your pay date as the 6th, if they were originally taking payment on the 1st and now forward a few days to the 29th, it doesn't really seem that it would affect you. I've used the fictitious monthly dates as follows:

As per original credit card payment date and salary:

Jan 6th - Salary £1000
Feb 1st - Credit card payment £100
Feb 6th - Salary £1000
Mar 1st - Credit card payment £100

*Get the email - we are changing your payment from the 1st to the 29th*

Mar 6th - Salary £1000
29th Mar - Credit card payment £100
Apr 6th - Salary £1000
29th Apr - Credit card payment £100
Etc.

The above dates are in line with the info you've provided - but the figures are just for example. By moving from the 1st to the 29th - with you being paid on the 6th - shouldn't make any difference to the amount you pay off the credit card on a monthly basis - you are still only paying one credit card payment between salary days. 

Yes it's a few days earlier - but the money should be there whether it's taken on the 1st, the 29th, or even if they brought it right forward to the 7th. In your case - the change should have no effect on your finances other than being a couple of days earlier - as it's still within your monthly salary cycle. 

Are we missing anything as to how taking this payment 3 days earlier will actually affect your finances bearing in mind that both the original payment date and new payment date are within your monthly salary cycle?

kaMelo

tulipchickuk said:

MalMonroe said:

You are covered by the Direct Debit guarantee - info in link below -

https://www.directdebit.co.uk/direct-debit-explained/direct-debit-guarantee/

Organisations should give at least ten working days notice of any changes to direct debit payments, did that happen here? 

As you have posted this on 22 July when they are due to take payment on 29th. 

Although it's perfectly legal for them to do this (otherwise they'd not be in business very long), whenever you receive such a notification you can always phone them and say that their new arrangement does not suit your personal circumstances.

As with my energy company who are often contacting me to say they've changed my direct debit amount to a random figure. I send an email to say I don't want to pay that figure but I'll increase my payment to a figure to suit me, not them. (I'm dreading October!)

You don't have time to send an email and barely have enough time for a telephone conversation now as I feel they must have contacted you some time ago about this. But in any event I'd phone them on Monday and say it's just not on. Especially as you have made one payment already in July. 

If they have not complied with the terms and conditions of the Direct Debit guarantee by not giving you sufficient notice and then still taking your money anyway, they'll have to pay it back. 

thank you for this I did not know about the 10 day notice and I have quoted that to 118 I cancel the direct debit and I will reinstate it today in time for the next payment which I have asked to be the seventh of each month as I get paid on the sixth

As above, ten days notice is guidance only and whilst a majority of companies follow it the absolute minimum advance notice for the direct debit amount is three days.

Vinknut

Assume you are paid on the last day of the month, and it becomes a problem, as it does this year when both end of Feb and end of March are both weekdays.

Feb 28th - Salary £1000
1st Mar - Credit card payment £100
*Get the email - we are changing your payment from the 1st to the 29th*
29th Mar - Credit card payment £100
31st March - Salary £1000

Two payments in one salary cycle.

Although, agreed in this case with the salary on the 6th it doesn't make a difference - but there are circumstances where it would.

LeeUK2

My direct debit on my 118 card has just been taken today 1st of month.