County Court Hearing in August- need to send a defence?

Pippilulu

Hi all, I have a CC hearing on 8th of August (not 28th as I originally thought!) and it says I need to send any documents I will rely on to the court and other party. Need to send quickly so they are received 14 days beforehand but not sure what I need to provide? 

I have posted before as to why I got a ticket but a quick summary- parked with permission in the space belonging to my neighbour (who owns their home) and received a ticket in middle of night. As per land registry we own the parking spaces, we are not leaseholders. Parking company argue we all signed away our rights to our parking spaces and they can ticket anyone who parks in them but they have not provided evidence of this nor has the management company. Neighbour happy to write a letter to back me up. My original defence sent when process started was very poor as I had no idea of the correct protocol! What should I be providing now ahead of the hearing? I assume too late to send the defence from the sticky post At top of forum? 

Many thanks all! 

Mouse007

Is this a continuation of your post here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6316626/court-pack-received-help-with-defense-or-i-just-pay-it#latest

or a new case?

If so please update that thread and not start another one, either way you are a bit late to submit a defence. It would help (you) if you engaged a bit more with the forum. Your previous posts are somewhat unconcluded.

Pippilulu

No sorry for confusion,  I have had 2 tickets in the past 2 years. This is another case, weird I can’t find the original post about it (I definitely didn’t delete it!) . 

chanz4

i would search planning permision also for signs and if use cameras application for these also, do point out the £60 fee on top has been thrown out on a load of parkingeyes court cases

Mouse007

Your case is important, it is this type of nonsence that we need evidence of.

Can you backfill your timeline on this? Date you parked in your neighbours space, date of letter of claim, date of County Court Claim and most importantly a redacted copy of your defence.

You now need to prepare your witness statement, we can help but need to know what happened and what you have said so far.

KeithP

chanz4 said:

i would search planning permision also for signs and if use cameras application for these also, do point out the £60 fee on top has been thrown out on a load of parkingeyes court cases

I don't think ParkingEye add 'the £60 fee on top', do they?

However, you are right to mention that £60 as ParkingEye are not involved here. 

Pippilulu

I parked in the space on 17/02/21 and got a parking ticket as they said I didn’t display the parking disc residents are supposed to use. I tried to get management company to help given I had the permission from the land owner of the parking space so it wasn’t any sort of trespass. Proof of this in text messages sent before the parking ticket was issued on 17th and also an email from neighbour saying how shocked she was and that the fine should be dropped. Management company went round in circles with it and then said tough luck. I have argued with them since feb 2021 about this and they now refuse to engage with me despite us owning a house here and paying them management fees. They back up the parking company by agreeing that we all signed over the rights of our parking spaces but amazingly they can’t find any evidence of this and I have the emails to show this.

Claim from County Court came 4th October 2021, My defence was pretty awful- sent an email a few lines long saying how unfair it was and that we are the owners of the parking spaces. I also sent copies of the text and email from my neighbour giving me permission to park there. And a letter from the management company who said don’t park in your neighbours spaces unless you have permission. I said we are terrorised as residents by the parking company which I now know wasn’t in any way relevant but I thought a judge might feel sorry for me! 

Response from BW legal was that I had admitted my guilt and offered no defence so am liable for the fine. I have not engaged with BW legal or the parking company at any point despite the numerous emails and calls and texts offering me a discount on the fine if I pay it now. 

Parking company is Parking and Property Management 

Coupon-mad

I have a CC hearing on 8th of August (not 28th as I originally thought!) and it says I need to send any documents I will rely on to the court and other party. Need to send quickly so they are received 14 days beforehand but not sure what I need to provide? 

Have a look at the witness statement and evidence bundles posted by:

@aphex007
@Daiapolon2021

Also look at this one someone created last month (it continues on the subsequent page too):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79241699/#Comment_79241699

Some case law:
Here is Jopson v Homeguard: -
https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/JOPSON-V-HOMEGUARD-2906J-Approved.pdf

Here is Link v Parkinson: -
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/12/link-parking-and-overstone-court.html#:~:text=Of particular interest is Link,requiring a permit to park.
For Link v Parkinson, here is an extract from the judgment: -

Of particular interest is Link Parking v Ms Parkinson C7GF50J7 [2016], which concerns this building, Overstone Court. The judge examined the lease and found that the parking company could not override the tenant's right to park by requiring a permit to park.

You will also need a proper WS from your neighbour, signed with a statement of truth and referring to dates, details and the site and you by name and attaching a copy if their proof of owning the space. 

He/She should name all your family and state you all have the right to park a motor vehicle in that bay, by virtue of a verbal agreement between you as neighbours - an agreement that confers no title (the bay remains hers) but she is perfectly happy to confirm that this arrangement exists and continues until further notice.

He/she also needs to state in this WS that she has NEVER authorised any parking firm to run a business selling their bay out to drivers at £100 per day, which is what this regime is doing to all leaseholders. He/She could add that they are shocked to find their lease interfered with in this way and that they take the point that the parking firm are trespassing.

Attach his/her full lease and yours too, and refer to the Landlord & Tenant Act and the fact none of you leaseholders have ever signed over your rights nor even been consulted by the freehold landowner about this onerous interference with your property rights.

Number every exhibit and every page and every paragraph.

Mouse007

OK, I think I am going to have to tease this out from you.

Mouse007 said:

 most importantly a redacted copy of your defence.

What exactly did you file as a defence? word for word verbatim - which must have been accepted by the Court as a defence if you now have a hearing date. Time is not on your side here, we need clear and full answers, otherwise we can not help you.

Why? because you can not enter anything new in your witness statement, but you can expand upon and develop aguements around the points raised in your defence.

Pippilulu

Sorry had to go feed horses!!

defence was sent by email so have copied and pasted  it as follows: 

“ On the 17th of Feb 2021 I parked my car in the parking space that is owned by my immediate neighbour, Mrs X, with her permission to do so. Please see email attached from Mrs X advising that I had her permission to do so. To be clear, these parking spaces are owned by the home owners in the housing development, as shown on the deeds of our properties. They are not owned by the landowner but form part of each property. Home owners in this development are not leaseholders, we own our property and the associated parking space(s) outright.  Please also find attached a letter from the Management Company of the housing development, advising that parking in spaces belonging to our neighbours is not permitted UNLESS they have given permission. I had permission to do so. Screen shot of text message received from Mrs X, dated 16thof Feb 2021 which explicitly provides permission to park in her space before I did so.”

(I then had 3 lines about how unfair the situation is and how a first responder  vehicle got a parking ticket when attending to a very sick neighbour and we are literally being terrorised even when there is a serious emergency which I now know is completely irrelevant ☺️)

Here is the response from BW legal to my defence. They mention private land- well yes the parking spaces are private and owned by the home owners (we are not leaseholders, we do not have a lease or any landlord) and I now have the deed for my neighbours property from the land registry to prove it. They also say the bays are allocated but they are not, we own them! 

Mouse007

Where exactly did you send that defence? to whom?

The form, content and presentation are so far removed from that which I would expect the Court to entertain that I am at a loss to understand how you are now at a hearing stage.

You however have an overwhelmingly strong case - it now needs to be properly presented so the nice but dim judge can not misunderstand - trust me, they are not always that wise. You are up against scum and need to prepare yourself accoringly.

Hope the horses are happy, but our advice might be a bit better than theirs.