Bulb DD notice reducing from 10 to 5 working days

MWT

wild666 said:

MWT said:

Dolor said:

They will no doubt argue that suppliers are under pressure to prevent consumers from getting into debt.

I suppose this one can work in both directions as it would allow the supplier to react more quickly to reduce the DD when the expected £66 credits are applied...

I don't think suppliers will take into account the £66 credits applied each month when working out a DD at least that's what I was told when I questioned them on the £400 credit and any credit the person has built up they simply use the readings they estimate the person will use and divide by 12. This means the customer has to physically ask for any credit to be refunded be it by doing it online or over the phone.

They are certainly not planning to take it into account when projecting forward to calculate the DD payments at the moment, but right now we really don't know how each supplier is going to handle the payments when it comes to October...

MattMattMattUK

MWT said:

wild666 said:

MWT said:

Dolor said:

They will no doubt argue that suppliers are under pressure to prevent consumers from getting into debt.

I suppose this one can work in both directions as it would allow the supplier to react more quickly to reduce the DD when the expected £66 credits are applied...

I don't think suppliers will take into account the £66 credits applied each month when working out a DD at least that's what I was told when I questioned them on the £400 credit and any credit the person has built up they simply use the readings they estimate the person will use and divide by 12. This means the customer has to physically ask for any credit to be refunded be it by doing it online or over the phone.

They are certainly not planning to take it into account when projecting forward to calculate the DD payments at the moment, but right now we really don't know how each supplier is going to handle the payments when it comes to October...

I do not think they are anywhere near close to concluding the discussions between the government and energy providers, there also seems to be mounting pressure on whoever wins the Conservative leadership vote to increase the winter handouts. Martin Lewis seems to be pushing for a huge increase in them, but even politicians in the middle of the Conservative party, which is well to the right of most are saying that there needs to be more, although most of that pressure does seem to come from MPs in the Red Wall so probably an element of self preservation involved. 

Personally I do not think that anything that has already been announced will change, but I can see the £400/£66pcm element being extended for a further six months once the Apr '23 cap is announced, although I certainly will not be banking on it. 

Xbigman

Giving people more money is a self defeating strategy. 

Supply and demand basic theory. When a resource is in short supply the price goes up and people use less. Except in the case of energy (including Petrol and diesel) people don't. Yes a few cut back but most don't. If energy is in short supply and we pay people to use the same amount supply and demand means prices will go up again. Guess what, we've just seen it in action. Every indicator for the October cap was saying £2800. We announced a £400 hand out. Price goes up just over £400. Its not rocket science. Martin Lewis has got this dead wrong and so has the government. 
We should pay people to reduce energy use. I can think of a few ways of doing it but I freely admit none is perfect. Paying people to keep using something in short supply is just crazy.

This is over simplified but a valid point.



Darren

MattMattMattUK

Xbigman said:

Giving people more money is a self defeating strategy. 

Supply and demand basic theory. When a resource is in short supply the price goes up and people use less. Except in the case of energy (including Petrol and diesel) people don't. Yes a few cut back but most don't. If energy is in short supply and we pay people to use the same amount supply and demand means prices will go up again. Guess what, we've just seen it in action. Every indicator for the October cap was saying £2800. We announced a £400 hand out. Price goes up just over £400. Its not rocket science. Martin Lewis has got this dead wrong and so has the government. 
We should pay people to reduce energy use. I can think of a few ways of doing it but I freely admit none is perfect. Paying people to keep using something in short supply is just crazy.

This is over simplified but a valid point.



Darren

Energy usage is not entirely elastic, so a normal supply and demand curve does not apply. Generally that is seen by the fact that even though energy costs will have increased threefold from Summer 2020 (or 2019) to winter 2022 energy consumption has not reduced significantly, however spending in other non-essentials has decreased. Energy spending is increasing which is removing spending from other areas of the economy as energy is generally regarded as an essential for most. Hospitality and leisure are being particularly hit, both because their energy costs have risen significantly more than consumer pricing and because consumers can afford to spend less on non-essentials. The price of energy is not rising in response to excess spending power, it is rising due to increased input costs. 

To put a rough figure on it the estimates are that increases in energy and fuel costs have sucked £60 billion out of the wider economy so far this year and over the next twelve months will suck out £94-120 billion from the wider economy due to people having to spend on energy and fuel. 

Higher energy prices will incentivise people to reduce energy consumption, but there are limits to how low people can reasonably reduce their consumption to before it involves significant detriment to their lives, it is one thing not being wasteful, it is entirely another to have people sitting shivering in winter and unable to cook hot food because they cannot afford the bills. 

Mstty

I doubt even this winter we would see the full affect of costs and reduction of usage because of all the handouts and the fact some suppliers still bill every six months so people who don't do the calculations will get landed with reality come spring.

Next winter, if there are no more handouts, will be the big reduction in energy usage imo.

MattMattMattUK

Mstty said:

I doubt even this winter we would see the full affect of costs and reduction of usage because of all the handouts and the fact some suppliers still bill every six months so people who don't do the calculations will get landed with reality come spring.

Next winter, if there are no more handouts, will be the big reduction in energy usage imo.

I suspect what we will actually see some reduction, but mostly a large increase in debt and defaults on energy bills, with the courts being backlogged even more than they already are as the energy companies try to enforce payment. 

sourpuss2021

Back to the subject of paying Bulb by direct debit, my understanding is that there is no requirement to pay this way.  I'm with Bulb and I've always paid varying amounts each month using my Visa debit card as and when.   Yes trying to build up a bit of a credit over summer but that being my choice.   So long as you log in via the website rather than the app there's always the option to make a one-off payment.

QrizB

sourpuss2021 said:

Back to the subject of paying Bulb by direct debit, my understanding is that there is no requirement to pay this way.  I'm with Bulb and I've always paid varying amounts each month using my Visa debit card as and when.

I don't know if Bulb necessarily do, but energy companies are allowed to charge more for cash or card payments.

DD is typically the cheapest, followed by prepayment, and cash or card the most expensive.

sourpuss2021

QrizB said:

sourpuss2021 said:

Back to the subject of paying Bulb by direct debit, my understanding is that there is no requirement to pay this way.  I'm with Bulb and I've always paid varying amounts each month using my Visa debit card as and when.

I don't know if Bulb necessarily do, but energy companies are allowed to charge more for cash or card payments.

DD is typically the cheapest, followed by prepayment, and cash or card the most expensive.

Fortunately Bulb don't charge any extra for sporadic card payments.  I figure that was one of their selling points in the olden days and they haven't changed it.  I'm always a bit mystified when I read of people talking of their direct debits going up as I've never paid that way.    Thanks for the explanation of why many people do.

Mstty

Have you considered moving away from bulb or are you waiting for Octopus to buy them(I think they are the only ones left bidding)