How much longer will this bear market go on for?

Millyonare

MK62 said:

Millyonare said:

Type_45 said:

masonic said:

Type_45 said:

sevenhills said:

GSP said:

Quite agree with nearly all of this.

While they have just reversed some recent decisions, I would have liked them to go the whole or further hog than cutting tax by just 1p to 19p. If they really believed in what they are doing it should have gone down to 15p to ‘get things moving’.
It seems to me by just the 1p cut they are a ‘little scared’ what may happen.

I would like to buy camper van, but I don't because of the debt.
We may help our children get on the housing ladder, but they will be paying this governments debt.

"This government's debt"...  so all the people who supported these policies are going to absolve themselves from any responsibility?

I think we all know the answer to that. Best to think of it as the British taxpayer's debt.

British tax payer's debt which some people were dead against all the way through. 

Those who supported these policies must accept responsibility.

This is wartime-like spending.

UK has just been through a two-year war on covid, so extra govt debt is to be expected.

A lot of folks are massively overreacting to this new budget. No other G7 country in the world is raising taxes in the post-covid era. UK must not raise taxes. Cutting taxes, to give the people their own money back, is good.

Besides, the Truss giveaway is (much) less than we think. The 1-5% income tax cuts are going to be largely wiped out by the fiscal drag of the unchanged £12k and £100k tax allowances.

It certainly will be for the low paid.....maybe not for middle earners, and certainly not for high earners....

To be fair, the top 1% of earners already pay nearly 30% of all UK income tax. We can't go on punishing successful people forever.

Type_45

'68' handle today? The close is important too.

sevenhills

InvesterJones said:

FTSE is up 0.46%

The FTSE should increase with Sterling lower, that is what was said after the referendum.

MK62

Millyonare said:

MK62 said:

Millyonare said:

Type_45 said:

masonic said:

Type_45 said:

sevenhills said:

GSP said:

Quite agree with nearly all of this.

While they have just reversed some recent decisions, I would have liked them to go the whole or further hog than cutting tax by just 1p to 19p. If they really believed in what they are doing it should have gone down to 15p to ‘get things moving’.
It seems to me by just the 1p cut they are a ‘little scared’ what may happen.

I would like to buy camper van, but I don't because of the debt.
We may help our children get on the housing ladder, but they will be paying this governments debt.

"This government's debt"...  so all the people who supported these policies are going to absolve themselves from any responsibility?

I think we all know the answer to that. Best to think of it as the British taxpayer's debt.

British tax payer's debt which some people were dead against all the way through. 

Those who supported these policies must accept responsibility.

This is wartime-like spending.

UK has just been through a two-year war on covid, so extra govt debt is to be expected.

A lot of folks are massively overreacting to this new budget. No other G7 country in the world is raising taxes in the post-covid era. UK must not raise taxes. Cutting taxes, to give the people their own money back, is good.

Besides, the Truss giveaway is (much) less than we think. The 1-5% income tax cuts are going to be largely wiped out by the fiscal drag of the unchanged £12k and £100k tax allowances.

It certainly will be for the low paid.....maybe not for middle earners, and certainly not for high earners....

To be fair, the top 1% of earners already pay nearly 30% of all UK income tax. We can't go on punishing successful people forever.

Perhaps, but shifting the tax burden towards the lower paid, whilst in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis isn't going to be seen as "fair" by the majority......and certainly hasn't been seen as "responsible" by the powers that matter.

Granted, the decision to freeze income tax thresholds was not Mr Kwarteng's (and to be fair to Rishi Sunak, that decision was taken well before the current cost-of-living crisis), but the decision not to unfreeze them most definitely was - his priority when cutting taxes seems to have been to cut tax for higher earners in the hope that those people will generate higher economic growth which will benefit all.....this growth he hopes for, and the subsequent benefit for all, had better arrive quickly or else I can see nothing but electoral annihilation come 2024.....

As for the policy itself......the markets have already been quick to pass their judgement.......how this growth is going to be delivered with high inflation, high interest rates and record energy prices remains something of an unanswered question.

My opinion is that their "experiment" has already blown up in their faces......and we'll all be left to foot the bill.

Millyonare

MK62 said:

Millyonare said:

MK62 said:

Millyonare said:

Type_45 said:

masonic said:

Type_45 said:

sevenhills said:

GSP said:

Quite agree with nearly all of this.

While they have just reversed some recent decisions, I would have liked them to go the whole or further hog than cutting tax by just 1p to 19p. If they really believed in what they are doing it should have gone down to 15p to ‘get things moving’.
It seems to me by just the 1p cut they are a ‘little scared’ what may happen.

I would like to buy camper van, but I don't because of the debt.
We may help our children get on the housing ladder, but they will be paying this governments debt.

"This government's debt"...  so all the people who supported these policies are going to absolve themselves from any responsibility?

I think we all know the answer to that. Best to think of it as the British taxpayer's debt.

British tax payer's debt which some people were dead against all the way through. 

Those who supported these policies must accept responsibility.

This is wartime-like spending.

UK has just been through a two-year war on covid, so extra govt debt is to be expected.

A lot of folks are massively overreacting to this new budget. No other G7 country in the world is raising taxes in the post-covid era. UK must not raise taxes. Cutting taxes, to give the people their own money back, is good.

Besides, the Truss giveaway is (much) less than we think. The 1-5% income tax cuts are going to be largely wiped out by the fiscal drag of the unchanged £12k and £100k tax allowances.

It certainly will be for the low paid.....maybe not for middle earners, and certainly not for high earners....

To be fair, the top 1% of earners already pay nearly 30% of all UK income tax. We can't go on punishing successful people forever.

Perhaps, but shifting the tax burden towards the lower paid, whilst in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis isn't going to be seen as "fair" by the majority......and certainly hasn't been seen as "responsible" by the powers that matter.

Granted, the decision to freeze income tax thresholds was not Mr Kwarteng's (and to be fair to Rishi Sunak, that decision was taken well before the current cost-of-living crisis), but the decision not to unfreeze them most definitely was - his priority when cutting taxes seems to have been to cut tax for higher earners in the hope that those people will generate higher economic growth which will benefit all.....this growth he hopes for, and the subsequent benefit for all, had better arrive quickly or else I can see nothing but electoral annihilation come 2024.....

As for the policy itself......the markets have already been quick to pass their judgement.......how this growth is going to be delivered with high inflation, high interest rates and record energy prices remains something of an unanswered question.

My opinion is that their "experiment" has already blown up in their faces......and we'll all be left to foot the bill.

The sharp fall in the pound is almost entirely due to the BoE under-raising rates compared to the US. When your biggest rival hikes 0.75%, and you only do 0.50%, the big money is always going to flee to the better return of the dollar. Mr Bailey should go, the BoE made a huge blunder.

The Tory tax giveaway, in totality, actually looks fairly modest. Tax cuts of 1-6% are going to be mostly wiped out by the 5-10% fiscal drag of the unchanged £12k and £100k allowances. Net-net, it's not very big.

Thumbs_Up

If the Tories call a snap election and Labour just sneak it – Does it mean all our troubles are over? Just asking on behalf of the future generations.

billy2shots

MK62 said:

Millyonare said:

MK62 said:

Millyonare said:

Type_45 said:

masonic said:

Type_45 said:

sevenhills said:

GSP said:

Quite agree with nearly all of this.

While they have just reversed some recent decisions, I would have liked them to go the whole or further hog than cutting tax by just 1p to 19p. If they really believed in what they are doing it should have gone down to 15p to ‘get things moving’.
It seems to me by just the 1p cut they are a ‘little scared’ what may happen.

I would like to buy camper van, but I don't because of the debt.
We may help our children get on the housing ladder, but they will be paying this governments debt.

"This government's debt"...  so all the people who supported these policies are going to absolve themselves from any responsibility?

I think we all know the answer to that. Best to think of it as the British taxpayer's debt.

British tax payer's debt which some people were dead against all the way through. 

Those who supported these policies must accept responsibility.

This is wartime-like spending.

UK has just been through a two-year war on covid, so extra govt debt is to be expected.

A lot of folks are massively overreacting to this new budget. No other G7 country in the world is raising taxes in the post-covid era. UK must not raise taxes. Cutting taxes, to give the people their own money back, is good.

Besides, the Truss giveaway is (much) less than we think. The 1-5% income tax cuts are going to be largely wiped out by the fiscal drag of the unchanged £12k and £100k tax allowances.

It certainly will be for the low paid.....maybe not for middle earners, and certainly not for high earners....

To be fair, the top 1% of earners already pay nearly 30% of all UK income tax. We can't go on punishing successful people forever.

Perhaps, but shifting the tax burden towards the lower paid, whilst in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis isn't going to be seen as "fair" by the majority......and certainly hasn't been seen as "responsible" by the powers that matter.

I didn't see anything that shifted the tax burden to lower earners in the mini budget. 

It's a different argument if you ask 'who came off best' but I didn't see more tax burden placed at anyone's feet. 

InvesterJones

Thumbs_Up said:

If the Tories call a snap election

If you currently had a majority of 80 or so, yet polls were predicting you'd lose an election called now.. would you call a snap election?

daz378

Whispers of vonc  going in already....not sure if true

Type_45

Stubborn support at these levels for the markets. But those support lines will crumble. And when they do...