NCP/BW ANPR PCN - Cambridge North Railway St Car Park - Only final reminder received

kev00

HI all, 

Timeline: 

Date of alleged contravention 17/12/21

Contravention: Disabled / Drop off only

Entered the drop off zone on 16/7/21 and stayed overnight until 17/7/21 - it was in front of the station and a hotel and did not park in a bay (it was kerb side next to building works, but no signage there. Driver did not notice any signs upon entering the cark at the time, but having checked back, there is a sign upon driving into the area. (But not where driver parked)

 

Final Reminder received: 7/4/22 Fine = £100

This was the only correspondence received from NCP. No NtK or initial PCN. They had caught the driver entering and exiting via ANPR time stamped and number plate visible. 

Trace letters from: May 22 - July 22 Fine = £170

Ignored as per general advice. All of them just demanding payment of £170 with increasing tone of voice. 

Appeal sent to NCP via appeal email: 20/6/22. 

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner 

 

Further, it is noted that the parking charge notice is dated 17th December 2022, yet it was only received on 7th April 2022. This suggests it was in fact sent after the stated date. Please provide evidence of when the notice was posted.

Further, whether the notice was sent on the stated date, or sometime later, this is much later than 15 days after the date of the alleged contravention on 17th December 2022. It is noted that the parking charge notice also does not include all of the details required under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) (including, but not limited to: stating whether a notice to the driver was given or placed on the vehicle; and specifying the maximum additional costs you may seek to recover).

Reply to appeal received: 22/6/22

"As your Parking Charge Notices have now been transferred to Trace Debt Recovery all further correspondence regarding these notices will need to be sent to them directly as NCP cannot accept appeals or payments in regards to these notices."

Letter from BW Legal: 10/7/22 Fine = £170

Similar to Trace letters, first letter sounded very polite. 

Currently not sure where to go next. Am I correct in thinking that byelaws apply so they can't pursue the claim after 6 months? But the debt collection letters are still flowing in. Can POPLA help? Or perhaps someone on this forum  

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

That's a final reminder, not the NTK, so the dates don't apply for PoFA/keeper liability, although you could argue that since it was the first document received from NCP, then you consider it to be the NTK.

The only way to get a copy of the original would be to send an SAR as per the NEWBIES to the DPO of NCP. You will need to include non-photo proof of ID with the request.

What does the heading of the letter from BW legal say? Is it a LoC/LBC, or just a debt collection letter?

You will need to confirm whether or not the car park is a railway asset to determine whether or not Railway Byelaws apply.

Google Streetview images don't help much as the latest ones are from 2018, before the hotel was built.

kev00

@Fruitcake
Thanks for the quick reply. I will send of the SAR as a next step to get access to the original letters. 

How can I determine if the car park is a railway asset?

kev00

Letters from BW legal is just the generic debt collection letter. Similar as the Trace letters but less harsh sounding. 

Fruitcake

The definitive methods to determine if this is a railway asset where byelaws apply would be to either ask Greater Anglia Rail, Network Rail, or pay a few quid to get a copy of the Land Registry entry.

Since the car park is part of a newly built station, I would start from the standpoint that it is a railway asset, therefore railway byelaws apply, therefore it is not relevant land as defined by the PoFA 2012, therefore the driver can, the owner may, but the keeper cannot be held liable for the parking charge.

You could ignore this and see what happens, or you can tell them the above in writing, and to FRO.

fisherjim

This car park rarely comes up but in this example from December last year NCP admit this is Railway land, and they can't use the POFA in effect if they don't know the drivers details they can't pin it on the keeper. As usual they muddy the waters with their usual confusion:

"On Railway Land managed by NCP, we currently enforce under contract law. We are not allowed to use the provisions of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) & Keeper Liability as Railway Land is exempt from this."

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/444072-ncp-anpr-pcn-cambridge-north-railway-st-car-park-late-won-at-popla/

They dropped this one as a no hoper.

Coupon-mad

But just to clarify: it doesn't time out after 6 months as it is not a PENALTY Charge.

Definitely get a SAR and ask an extra question: please explain the exact date NCP obtained my data and the source (DVLA or otherwise) due to the significant and unusual 5 month delay in writing to me as keeper, which NCP obviously realises is an issue due to 'only' demanding £100 in the so called reminder letter, which is not only very late but was the only letter received.

kev00

Thanks guys, super helpful advice here. My next actions are:

*send off a SAR from NCP DPO

*keep ignoring BW Legal letter (for debt collection). 

I'll respond as soon as I have the info from the SAR. 

kev00

Good news. 

SAR revealed that they did in fact send a NtK, but it was sent on 7th March.This is more than 3 months late and nothing has been sent before this. 

Someone please tell me this is a win? How do I put this to the ground once and for-all? 

Umkomaas

kev00 said:

Good news. 

SAR revealed that they did in fact send a NtK, but it was sent on 7th March.This is more than 3 months late and nothing has been sent before this. 

Someone please tell me this is a win? How do I put this to the ground once and for-all? 

Sorry to rain on your parade. A late NtK (within 7 months of the parking event) does not invalidate the charge. It means that NCP can't pursue keeper liability, but can continue to pursue the driver for up to 6 years. 

Coupon-mad said:

But just to clarify: it doesn't time out after 6 months as it is not a PENALTY Charge.

Definitely get a SAR and ask an extra question: please explain the exact date NCP obtained my data and the source (DVLA or otherwise) due to the significant and unusual 5 month delay in writing to me as keeper, which NCP obviously realises is an issue due to 'only' demanding £100 in the so called reminder letter.m which is not only very late but was the only letter received.

Did you pose the exact question advised by @Coupon-mad (above)?  If so, what was their response?

kev00

@Umkomaas Didn't get an answer to the exact question so I have specifically asked it again. will update once I hear back.