Chicken and Egg - Permit vs Primacy of Contract vs PPC

hullensien

Good Morning

Hoping for some guidance here from those more knowledgeable than myself

I am a resident in a complex of flats - majority of which are long leasehold - currently “managed” by BaySentry

1 The leases do not mention the need to display a permit, nor that a PPC will be employed so Primacy of Contract would be a defence here

2 Permits and “Parking Policies” are issued to new residents. I have informed the management company that I do not need to display a permit and do so out of courtesy only.

3 The Permit states that by displaying the permit i agree to be bound by the terms and conditions of the policy. 

The parking policy is a very faint copy and will not reproduce very well. The Policy does mention that “security patrols the car park” and vehicles not displaying the correct permits may be “fined” by the security company. There are some ambiguity in terms too - some residents/guests displaying permits have received PCN’s for “not parking wholly within bay” - more often than not sticking out of the end of the bay because the bays are too short. However the parking policy states “any vehicle occupying more than one space will contravene the parking policy” - not the same as “not parking wholly within bay”

So what are we bound by?  The lease - the policy - or the T&C’s of BaySentry?

Thanks in advance

Mouse007

Which came first? The lease did.

What do the permits offer which you were not already entitled to under your lease? Nothing.

With no offer there can be no contract. That is no agreement.

Have you received a Parking Charge Notice?

Fruitcake

Primacy of contract means exactly that. It takes precedent over anything and everything else. Your lease does not refer to the parking system, nor PPCs, therefore they are irrelevant.

As a leaseholder, your lease cannot be varied without a ballot being held of all landowners and tenants complying with the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987, Part IV, Section 37.  

"(5)Any such application shall only be made if—

(a)in a case where the application is in respect of less than nine leases, all, or all but one, of the parties concerned consent to it; or

(b)in a case where the application is in respect of more than eight leases, it is not opposed for any reason by more than 10 per cent. of the total number of the parties concerned and at least 75 per cent. of that number consent to it."

You should ask whoever employed the PPC when this ballot occurred, and what was the result, because without it, your lease stands in its current version.

In any case, the PPCs are not offering you anything you don't already have, which is a right to park without hindrance. Since there is no offer, there can be no consideration, and subsequently no agreement, which are the three elements that must be satisfied in order to form a contract between two parties.

In your case, I wouldn't display a permit at all, then nobody can suggest you agree to such onerous terms. You could of course make your own permit, and quote the relevant parts "in accordance with sections X,Y, and Z of your lease.
(Right to park, Right to quiet enjoyment, etcetera as applicable.)

D_P_Dance

Some reading

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/1053920-private-parking-companies

have you complained  to your MP?

hullensien

I have had a PCN - from when the site was run by good old Peter Del Grosso

There is no problem with the PCN - it’s historic - and now in the (in)capable hands of DCBL - there are other issues with the site I’m at and DCBL are aware of this and won’t take it further - they have already pulled the plug on quite a number of Autosec cases discontinuing out at the last minute. However I am ready carry on if they want to.

If I see anyone has got a ticket or see a ticket on their vehicle (sometimes leave them my contact details)  I give them as much help as I can, including pointing them to this forum that has been so helpful to me. Word has spread and I’m now getting stopped and asked for help so I am in the process of creating appeals and subsequent generic defence if they need them. Hence the question on contradictory T&C’s.

The latest tactic from Baysentry is not to respond to appeals so I have been telling anyone in this situation to log a complaint through the BPA portal for breaches of CoP Section 23.

MP is aware

Fruitcake

Good for you. If you don't mind the extra work, you could do a mail drop to all the residents, or put notes on cars even if they don't have NTDs defacing them.
Some people find a Facebook group helps.