Gazumped - what to do

Sarah1Mitty2

bennimc said:

There's actually a paragraph in Kirstie Allsop's book where she recommends putting in a '£1000 more than other offer' bid

Problem with that is if the bank then downvalues it just wastes everyone`s time.

Sarah1Mitty2

bennimc said:

Hi folks. Just looking for your sage advice on this situation we find ourselves in. 
We last week had an offer accepted on a property of £575k, which was 20k under guide price (but probably an overinflated listing to begin with - it had been on market for months). 
Today we've been told that the vendor has accepted another offer from another party and now wants to go to sealed bids.
I know legally he can do this - but ethically it makes me angry. We've done four 250 mile round trips, commissioned builders for quotes etc etc. 
I have no idea if the other party genuinely exists or they have proved funds. 
Feel like the vendor is a liability going forward if he can't abide by a gentleman's agreement and changes his mind at the sniff of money. 
I guess this is more of a vent than anything - thanks for your counsel! 

The effort you have put in isn`t really the sellers problem, you should just say that you have decided to step back for a while and look at other houses, see what they come back with. Sounds like a couple who have one being greedy and the other who knows what they need to do to sell to me.

Section62

Ath_Wat said:

Section62 said:

Ath_Wat said:

Section62 said:

Ath_Wat said:

Section62 said:

Ath_Wat said:

...Commissioning builders for quotes this early on is also unusual...

Why did you need builders in so soon?  Were you planning to remodel the house before moving into it?

Absolutely normal in my experience.

Either with a view to getting work done when the property is empty and more convenient for both the trader and buyer, or to get an idea of cost of planned work to make sure the overall package is affordable and/or will provide sufficient uplift in value.

Some people also get a builder to have a look round in lieu of getting more detailed surveys.

Well, yes, exactly.  Getting builders in for quotes this early could well be saying  to the vendor "I am not actually sure yet if I want to pay what I said I would", so if a better offer comes along, it's one more reason for them  to accept it.

if it's " a look round in lieu of getting more detailed surveys." then that wouldn't be "for quotes" - quotes implies they have some specific work in mind.

You are making quite a few assumptions there though, or reading things into what the OP said rather than reading what they said.

There's no reason why a builder can't give a property a once over at the same time as looking at it for the purposes of quoting.  The two aren't mutually exclusive.

No, they could have been giving it a once over as well as quoting, but the fact remains, they are quoting.  Whatever they might be doing as well is irrelevant.

I'm really not sure what you are trying to argue now. 

You said "then that wouldn't be 'for quotes'" - as if the two are mutually exclusive. They aren't, which your "as well as" now appears to confirm.

Ath_Wat said:

And if I am selling a house and someone in the week after making an offer wants to get quotes for specific work, I am definitely going to think that those quotes are going to have a big effect on whether their offer stands.  That's what a lot of people will read in to such behaviour.  They won't stand on a treestump and declare that must be what is happening, but it will factor into their decision making when they have a decision to make.

That's you though.  Is there evidence the OP's potential vendor thinks the same way?  Do we know what the 'quotes' are for?  Maybe it is work the vendor knows needs doing anyway?

What you said previously was "Commissioning builders for quotes this early on is also unusual".

I'm just saying my experience is different.  I think a lot of other people would have similar experience.

I am not sure why you think I've said they are exclusive - the point is if they come round for quotes they are coming round for quotes, whether they do other things at the same time is irrelevant.  If you say "for quotes" they are not coming round just to do other things and not quote.

It's not just me, it's me and many other people.  Of course I don't know if the vendor is one such person.  But they might be and therefore the fact a builder came round for quotes might have been part of the reason they went with the other offer, which maybe wasn't based on having work done at a cost that hadn't been established.

And I do think getting a builder round for quotes in the first week is unusual unless you are unsure about something and want to check it before you go too far down the line - which is the whole point.  If you are going to buy the house and just want to find out how much an extension might cost in  the future, there is no mad rush.  If you want a builder in in the first week, your offer looks less firm to me and lots of other people and a firmer, let alone higher one, not dependent on getting work done at unknown cost might seem more attractive.  It might not look that way to you, but that doesn't matter - as long as there are people who it does look like that to, it's as well to be aware of it.

I don't think I can be any more clear.

Strange how two people can see something so differently.

Knowing how hard it is to get a builder to quote for anything, let alone work on a prospective house purchase, I'd read a buyer being able to get multiple builders to agree to quote within a week of an offer being accepted as a positive sign that i) the prospective buyer is committed to the purchase and ii) that other people have come to the same judgement.

On the other hand you could be right of course.

But I don't think people should worry about asking a vendor if it is Ok to get a builder round to quote - it is all about the communication, and making sure the other side know what you have in mind.  How the OP handled this, neither of us know.

Ath_Wat

Section62 said:

Ath_Wat said:

Section62 said:

Ath_Wat said:

Section62 said:

Ath_Wat said:

Section62 said:

Ath_Wat said:

...Commissioning builders for quotes this early on is also unusual...

Why did you need builders in so soon?  Were you planning to remodel the house before moving into it?

Absolutely normal in my experience.

Either with a view to getting work done when the property is empty and more convenient for both the trader and buyer, or to get an idea of cost of planned work to make sure the overall package is affordable and/or will provide sufficient uplift in value.

Some people also get a builder to have a look round in lieu of getting more detailed surveys.

Well, yes, exactly.  Getting builders in for quotes this early could well be saying  to the vendor "I am not actually sure yet if I want to pay what I said I would", so if a better offer comes along, it's one more reason for them  to accept it.

if it's " a look round in lieu of getting more detailed surveys." then that wouldn't be "for quotes" - quotes implies they have some specific work in mind.

You are making quite a few assumptions there though, or reading things into what the OP said rather than reading what they said.

There's no reason why a builder can't give a property a once over at the same time as looking at it for the purposes of quoting.  The two aren't mutually exclusive.

No, they could have been giving it a once over as well as quoting, but the fact remains, they are quoting.  Whatever they might be doing as well is irrelevant.

I'm really not sure what you are trying to argue now. 

You said "then that wouldn't be 'for quotes'" - as if the two are mutually exclusive. They aren't, which your "as well as" now appears to confirm.

Ath_Wat said:

And if I am selling a house and someone in the week after making an offer wants to get quotes for specific work, I am definitely going to think that those quotes are going to have a big effect on whether their offer stands.  That's what a lot of people will read in to such behaviour.  They won't stand on a treestump and declare that must be what is happening, but it will factor into their decision making when they have a decision to make.

That's you though.  Is there evidence the OP's potential vendor thinks the same way?  Do we know what the 'quotes' are for?  Maybe it is work the vendor knows needs doing anyway?

What you said previously was "Commissioning builders for quotes this early on is also unusual".

I'm just saying my experience is different.  I think a lot of other people would have similar experience.

I am not sure why you think I've said they are exclusive - the point is if they come round for quotes they are coming round for quotes, whether they do other things at the same time is irrelevant.  If you say "for quotes" they are not coming round just to do other things and not quote.

It's not just me, it's me and many other people.  Of course I don't know if the vendor is one such person.  But they might be and therefore the fact a builder came round for quotes might have been part of the reason they went with the other offer, which maybe wasn't based on having work done at a cost that hadn't been established.

And I do think getting a builder round for quotes in the first week is unusual unless you are unsure about something and want to check it before you go too far down the line - which is the whole point.  If you are going to buy the house and just want to find out how much an extension might cost in  the future, there is no mad rush.  If you want a builder in in the first week, your offer looks less firm to me and lots of other people and a firmer, let alone higher one, not dependent on getting work done at unknown cost might seem more attractive.  It might not look that way to you, but that doesn't matter - as long as there are people who it does look like that to, it's as well to be aware of it.

I don't think I can be any more clear.

Strange how two people can see something so differently.

Knowing how hard it is to get a builder to quote for anything, let alone work on a prospective house purchase, I'd read a buyer being able to get multiple builders to agree to quote within a week of an offer being accepted as a positive sign that i) the prospective buyer is committed to the purchase and ii) that other people have come to the same judgement.

On the other hand you could be right of course.

But I don't think people should worry about asking a vendor if it is Ok to get a builder round to quote - it is all about the communication, and making sure the other side know what you have in mind.  How the OP handled this, neither of us know.

It's not strange at all.  There can be multiple explanations for things.  Anyone sensible considers them all - and the very fact that there is a chance of them pulling out after getting the quotes would be enough to make some people take a different offer, especially a higher one.
However committed to the purchase they might be at the point of asking for the builder, if they need a third bedroom and have expected a £20K quote for a loft conversion and hear it will be £50K, they are likely to pull out.  Is any of that certain?  Of course not.  Does it go into the pot when making decisions? Of course.

Sarah1Mitty2

aoleks said:

Kirstie Allsopp is a lady that's completely detached from reality, I wouldn't take her advice on what toilet paper to buy.

Harsh but maybe partly true, she is an entertainment figure, not really an expert on anything.

Thepeoplespal

I'm flabbergasted that having a builder around, is looked on negatively, rather than being seen as a committed buyer.

I'm currently in the middle of buying a two bed maisonette knowing it needs the kitchen remodelled, electric heaters renewed and the lease renewed to be above 80 years.   I want to know if my builder can reuse some of the carcasses of the old kitchen and just put on new doors and new worktops and was genuinely about to try to get him measuring up, but if it is looked on negatively, I'd rather not jeopardise the sale.  

Spreadsheetman

I can't see the problem either. I'll be wanting to have several trades round to quote a bit further on in my current house purchase as there are things I want to do to the property before moving in and I'd want the contractors lined up in advance where possible.

sheramber

snowqueen555 said:

I'd leave it to be honest but that is just me, it's one of those things where there isn't a set right answer.

It's all well and good saying nothing is binding until exchange of contracts, but the buyer has to invest a lot of time of £ to get any anywhere. I think the system they have in Scotland should be the same here. Once an offer is accepted it should be binding to some degree, and if either party pulls out they must pay a nominal fee or whatever it's called.

In Scotland an offer must be submitted by a solicitor and is not binding until missives are signed, The difference is missives can be signed much sooner in Scotland- as soon as 4 weeks.  Completion date is agreed when missives are signed. 

There is no waiting for a chain to complete. Either you coordinate your sale and purchase for the same date or move into rented, or get bridging finance.

Upcycling_Queen

I’m on my third trying to buy a house in Cornwall purchase. The first two mucked me about so much like this. I withdrew. I’m in Essex so like you, a blooming long trip. I pulled out of both and they are languishing on the market and not sold. If someone is mucking you around, don’t give in. It’s hard I know. But as my partner kept saying - something will come up. We’ve sold and are in rented at the moment and yes it’s awful but the market is changing.

Rumana03

You've seen the property 4 times? That's a lot considering you are in the early stages.
The property we are buying we have only seen once and now are going for a final viewing. We are almost near the exchange stage now so need to have another look around the property.
4 times sounds excessive at your stage to be honest.