Grade II Building - Survey Issues

youth_leader

As you will be researching the roof, I thought this site might be of interest.  I also wondered if I'd imagined my tiles were 'Queens'!
My building was 264 sq m.

www.sizes.com/materials/slate.htm

FreeBear

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/index.php is also worth visiting & joining. A wealth of knowledge about old buildings, repairs, and maintaining. If Listed Building Consent is required, there are people that can guide you through the process.

lookstraightahead

FreeBear said:

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/index.php is also worth visiting & joining. A wealth of knowledge about old buildings, repairs, and maintaining. If Listed Building Consent is required, there are people that can guide you through the process.

Op, this poster had always had amazing advice / knowledge.

TheJP

McTaggus said:

Thanks both, really helpful helpful responses.

j2009 hits my concern right on the head as has the last para in particular, and is the query we have raised; was it repair or was it replacement? The vendor told our surveyor they had the roof “redone” when they moved in, and LBC wasn’t gained in the process. We have asked for advice from the solicitor and were planning on asking the consent officer, but then understood that might invalidate some liability policies (which I don’t understand!)

I wouldn't contact the consent officer especially if you don't have the sellers permission, you could indemnify the seller and make life difficult for them to eventually sell even if the council were no longer interested in taking action. Indemnity insurance is legal protection, it wont cover the cost of the roof but more for any actionable fault if consent was not granted and the council wanted to take action.

McTaggus

FreeBear said:

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/index.php is also worth visiting & joining. A wealth of knowledge about old buildings, repairs, and maintaining. If Listed Building Consent is required, there are people that can guide you through the process.

Thank you! I’ll take a look today!

Section62

TheJP said:

McTaggus said:

Thanks both, really helpful helpful responses.

j2009 hits my concern right on the head as has the last para in particular, and is the query we have raised; was it repair or was it replacement? The vendor told our surveyor they had the roof “redone” when they moved in, and LBC wasn’t gained in the process. We have asked for advice from the solicitor and were planning on asking the consent officer, but then understood that might invalidate some liability policies (which I don’t understand!)

I wouldn't contact the consent officer especially if you don't have the sellers permission, you could indemnify the seller and make life difficult for them to eventually sell even if the council were no longer interested in taking action. Indemnity insurance is legal protection, it wont cover the cost of the roof but more for any actionable fault if consent was not granted and the council wanted to take action.

The problem with not contacting the CO and going down the indemnity insurance route is that a) with a listed building there is generally more need to have future contact with planning than with the average home and b) there is no time limit for enforcement of unauthorised LB works.

Going down the wise monkeys route means forever hoping that a) the roof replacement doesn't come to the attention of the authority and b) being concerned over any contact needing to be made with the CO regarding other issues, in case that either i) invalidates the insurance or ii) leads to discovery of the unauthorised works.

From what has been described I think the CO is likely to be unhappy the work has been done without consent, but probably isn't likely to insist on the roof being stripped and redone.  To an extent that does also depend on whether or not the roof structure has also been modified, and/or if other features like roof windows have been added.

In an ideal world the vendor needs to fess up.  In the absence of that, in the OP's position I wouldn't buy unless the CO was aware the roof work had already been done.  So really there's not much to lose by informing the CO if the vendor doesn't want to - if the vendor decides to pull out of the sale as revenge because the CO has been informed then the OP won't be in a worse position than they would be if they decided to pull out because of the risk of LB enforcement action.

BiB - If the council confirms they are aware the roof has been worked on and will be taking no enforcement action then that is probably the best outcome of all.  There would be no reason why the house couldn't be sold in that situation.

McTaggus

Such amazing advice here, thanks so much for taking the time to respond. In terms of my next steps, does this sound like a sensible course of action?

1. Request more information from the vendor as to the extent of the work done on the roof for our own context.
2. As LBC hasn’t been given, check whether the CO was made aware of this work, and if advice was received that LBC wasn’t required for the works undertaken. 

3a. If the CO was made aware and LBC not required, request from vendor permission to contact CO to confirm unless written evidence of this can be provided.
3b. If the CO wasn’t made aware, would vendor be happy to apply for retrospective consent, or for us to contact CO to discuss further.
4. If the answer to 3a or 3b is no, then walk away from the purchase. I know we could approach CO anyway, but a part of me thinks that if they don’t want us to contact CO, then that’s a pretty major red flag for me anyway and may mean they have done other works that may have required LBC.

Let me know if I have missed anything crucial here, or misinterpreted any of your guidance.

Many thanks,
McTaggus

Section62

McTaggus said:

Such amazing advice here, thanks so much for taking the time to respond. In terms of my next steps, does this sound like a sensible course of action?

1. Request more information from the vendor as to the extent of the work done on the roof for our own context.
2. As LBC hasn’t been given, check whether the CO was made aware of this work, and if advice was received that LBC wasn’t required for the works undertaken. 

3a. If the CO was made aware and LBC not required, request from vendor permission to contact CO to confirm unless written evidence of this can be provided.
3b. If the CO wasn’t made aware, would vendor be happy to apply for retrospective consent, or for us to contact CO to discuss further.
4. If the answer to 3a or 3b is no, then walk away from the purchase. I know we could approach CO anyway, but a part of me thinks that if they don’t want us to contact CO, then that’s a pretty major red flag for me anyway and may mean they have done other works that may have required LBC.

Let me know if I have missed anything crucial here, or misinterpreted any of your guidance.

Many thanks,
McTaggus

BiB - if that is suspected to be the case then it would be in your interests for the CO to know about the roof and check the property over to make sure nothing else has been done.  Ideally you want the CO to find anything else and to be giving you assurance that there are no other issues lurking (which your surveyor may not have picked up) - in effect a 'clean slate'.

In relation to point 1 - you may want to discuss with your solicitor the extent to which you can rely on any assurances given by the vendor.  If they don't tell you the truth then you may have a legal remedy, but that won't necessarily be cheap and may ultimately not be of any value (e.g. if they cannot afford to pay what you sue them for)

McTaggus

Really good point, thank you Section62!

youth_leader

Do also check about the septic tank.  I had a dispute with our neighbour about our shared tank soakaway which I had to declare.

As we'd paid off the mortgage I had all of the original deeds which showed the tank pipework installed in 1847. When I sold in 2020 I received a very long list of questions about it from the buyer's solicitor.  

This article is useful.

Septic tanks and sewage treatment plants: what you need to do: Overview - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)