New meter required and told I can only have a smart meter

[Deleted User]

The future is here: (source Capgemini)

A new world is coming where DNOs can better manage all of the following – and will be expected to do so:

• Network operating conditions, through greater visibility of power consumption patterns

• Demand levels and patterns, including peak demand, line losses and reverse flows

• Operations near specified network limits, by identifying areas of voltage spiking

• Asset investment, by strategically targeting highly stressed assets

• Outages, improving customer service by identifying and locating outages more quickly

• Connections, by accurately forecasting, and responding to demand changes on the network

• Microgeneration, by identifying reverse flows

As I said above, few of the advantages of a smart grid have been brought to the attention of consumers. We all just expect gas and electricity to be available with little thought given to how it gets to us.

MarcoM

brewerdave said:

MarcoM said:

I have read that these smart meters can cause issues, do you think I can refuse to have one installed and ask they look for a more traditional meter?

Simplifying all the above :- 
 1. Some (a relatively small number) of smart meter installs are carried through by the fitter even tho' the meter cannot communicate with the DCC (the intermediary between the user and their supplier)
  2.  Even if the communication loop is successfully made , in some cases, the supplier cannot obtain readings..
  3.   Where the customer has both electricity and gas supplies, the gas meter readings may not be received by the communications hub based by the electricity meter due to geographical/construction difficulties.
  4..   It appears that some makes of smart meter are difficult to read manually (a requirement if 1 ,2. and 3. happen)

Wouldn't that be in breach of whatever guidance the installers have for installing these things?
Surely if they cannot communicate the data the installation should not go ahead?

I'm still in two minds whether to go ahead with this, your post does not fill me with confidence...

Alnat1

If you are unlucky and they can't communicate, they will work like the meters you already have, they will need reading manually. They will still record your energy use.

So no disadvantage and most likely, unless you live somewhere remote with no signals, you won't have to bother doing meter reads again.

MarcoM

Alnat1 said:

If you are unlucky and they can't communicate, they will work like the meters you already have, they will need reading manually. They will still record your energy use.

So no disadvantage and most likely, unless you live somewhere remote with no signals, you won't have to bother doing meter reads again.

ok thanks.

We live on the outskirts of a big city sho it should be ok.
the gas meter is close to the elctricity one so hopefully the comms hub will work.

MWT

diystarter7 said:

Trust me once there are enough smart meters it will happen as there is more money for the suppliers

... and if it ever does happen, you should expect the tariffs to be framed as discounts for smart meters in the off-peak periods which are not available to those who are actively avoiding having a smart meter fitted...

We are some way off from what you describe, but I very much doubt there will come a time when avoiding a smart meter is incentivised...

Ultrasonic

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

For the vast majority of people, smart meters just make things easier by no longer having to send readings to a supplier, and with the in-home display making it easier to monitor usage for those who wish to.

Don't forget, they are running a business. With smart meters as I posted on this forum, we considered and most said avoid then the day after I read re 'variable tariffs during a 24 hour period.'  It's coming and this is why they want to lumber you with a smart meter. Avoid at all costs if possible IMHO.

I guess if you work during the day time like majority of workers, higher prices beween 5am and 10am then 4pm to 8pm - you are going to be properly ..... avoid.

The option for time if use tariffs is one benefit of smart meters but far from the only one, as part of a national 'smart grid'. As for your 'business' aspect note it's not the suppliers who are choosing to roll out smart meters.

The "option" you refer to, Have you read my post you quoted about those that go to work?
From that you can see that rather than "option" you put it as, workers on the whole will have little "option." other than to use gas/elec at max rates. Meaning if you work, you are penalised.

Please enlighten me to the other "benefits" of smart meters or than reading them automatically like water meters.

I read your post. To date nobody has been forced onto a time of use tariff but many have chosen to for their own benefit. Hence 'option'.  

In a general sense I actually think charging that varies with demand/supply would likely be a good thing to help with the switch to more renewable power.

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

For the vast majority of people, smart meters just make things easier by no longer having to send readings to a supplier, and with the in-home display making it easier to monitor usage for those who wish to.

Don't forget, they are running a business. With smart meters as I posted on this forum, we considered and most said avoid then the day after I read re 'variable tariffs during a 24 hour period.'  It's coming and this is why they want to lumber you with a smart meter. Avoid at all costs if possible IMHO.

I guess if you work during the day time like majority of workers, higher prices beween 5am and 10am then 4pm to 8pm - you are going to be properly ..... avoid.

The option for time if use tariffs is one benefit of smart meters but far from the only one, as part of a national 'smart grid'. As for your 'business' aspect note it's not the suppliers who are choosing to roll out smart meters.

The "option" you refer to, Have you read my post you quoted about those that go to work?
From that you can see that rather than "option" you put it as, workers on the whole will have little "option." other than to use gas/elec at max rates. Meaning if you work, you are penalised.

Please enlighten me to the other "benefits" of smart meters or than reading them automatically like water meters.

I read your post. To date nobody has been forced onto a time of use tariff but many have chosen to for their own benefit. Hence 'option'.  

In a general sense I actually think charging that varies with demand/supply would likely be a good thing to help with the switch to more renewable power.

Thank you. I feel you've misunderstood my post. We can expect the suppliers to force all to have varying daily fuel rates throughout the day so peak hours when most workers leave and return home rates are higher. Trust me once there are enough smart meters it will happen as there is more money for the suppliers

Awfully hot here - have a nice day

No, I understood but am not accepting your premise. 

Ultrasonic

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

It's an American site but some general info. on the benefits of a 'smart grid' here:

https://www.smartgrid.gov/the_smart_grid/smart_grid.html

I was talking re smart meters and usage per household/meter.
Take care.

Indeed, and my point was that you're missing the primary benefits of smart meters by doing so. As @[Deleted User] has been explaining.

diystarter7

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

For the vast majority of people, smart meters just make things easier by no longer having to send readings to a supplier, and with the in-home display making it easier to monitor usage for those who wish to.

Don't forget, they are running a business. With smart meters as I posted on this forum, we considered and most said avoid then the day after I read re 'variable tariffs during a 24 hour period.'  It's coming and this is why they want to lumber you with a smart meter. Avoid at all costs if possible IMHO.

I guess if you work during the day time like majority of workers, higher prices beween 5am and 10am then 4pm to 8pm - you are going to be properly ..... avoid.

The option for time if use tariffs is one benefit of smart meters but far from the only one, as part of a national 'smart grid'. As for your 'business' aspect note it's not the suppliers who are choosing to roll out smart meters.

The "option" you refer to, Have you read my post you quoted about those that go to work?
From that you can see that rather than "option" you put it as, workers on the whole will have little "option." other than to use gas/elec at max rates. Meaning if you work, you are penalised.

Please enlighten me to the other "benefits" of smart meters or than reading them automatically like water meters.

I read your post. To date nobody has been forced onto a time of use tariff but many have chosen to for their own benefit. Hence 'option'.  

In a general sense I actually think charging that varies with demand/supply would likely be a good thing to help with the switch to more renewable power.

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

For the vast majority of people, smart meters just make things easier by no longer having to send readings to a supplier, and with the in-home display making it easier to monitor usage for those who wish to.

Don't forget, they are running a business. With smart meters as I posted on this forum, we considered and most said avoid then the day after I read re 'variable tariffs during a 24 hour period.'  It's coming and this is why they want to lumber you with a smart meter. Avoid at all costs if possible IMHO.

I guess if you work during the day time like majority of workers, higher prices beween 5am and 10am then 4pm to 8pm - you are going to be properly ..... avoid.

The option for time if use tariffs is one benefit of smart meters but far from the only one, as part of a national 'smart grid'. As for your 'business' aspect note it's not the suppliers who are choosing to roll out smart meters.

The "option" you refer to, Have you read my post you quoted about those that go to work?
From that you can see that rather than "option" you put it as, workers on the whole will have little "option." other than to use gas/elec at max rates. Meaning if you work, you are penalised.

Please enlighten me to the other "benefits" of smart meters or than reading them automatically like water meters.

I read your post. To date nobody has been forced onto a time of use tariff but many have chosen to for their own benefit. Hence 'option'.  

In a general sense I actually think charging that varies with demand/supply would likely be a good thing to help with the switch to more renewable power.

Thank you. I feel you've misunderstood my post. We can expect the suppliers to force all to have varying daily fuel rates throughout the day so peak hours when most workers leave and return home rates are higher. Trust me once there are enough smart meters it will happen as there is more money for the suppliers

Awfully hot here - have a nice day

No, I understood but am not accepting your premise. 

No problem as I've stated what I know about to be true and happy with that. On that note feel free to agree to disagree and nothing will change my mind as things stand.
Enjoy your day.

Ultrasonic

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

For the vast majority of people, smart meters just make things easier by no longer having to send readings to a supplier, and with the in-home display making it easier to monitor usage for those who wish to.

Don't forget, they are running a business. With smart meters as I posted on this forum, we considered and most said avoid then the day after I read re 'variable tariffs during a 24 hour period.'  It's coming and this is why they want to lumber you with a smart meter. Avoid at all costs if possible IMHO.

I guess if you work during the day time like majority of workers, higher prices beween 5am and 10am then 4pm to 8pm - you are going to be properly ..... avoid.

The option for time if use tariffs is one benefit of smart meters but far from the only one, as part of a national 'smart grid'. As for your 'business' aspect note it's not the suppliers who are choosing to roll out smart meters.

The "option" you refer to, Have you read my post you quoted about those that go to work?
From that you can see that rather than "option" you put it as, workers on the whole will have little "option." other than to use gas/elec at max rates. Meaning if you work, you are penalised.

Please enlighten me to the other "benefits" of smart meters or than reading them automatically like water meters.

I read your post. To date nobody has been forced onto a time of use tariff but many have chosen to for their own benefit. Hence 'option'.  

In a general sense I actually think charging that varies with demand/supply would likely be a good thing to help with the switch to more renewable power.

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

For the vast majority of people, smart meters just make things easier by no longer having to send readings to a supplier, and with the in-home display making it easier to monitor usage for those who wish to.

Don't forget, they are running a business. With smart meters as I posted on this forum, we considered and most said avoid then the day after I read re 'variable tariffs during a 24 hour period.'  It's coming and this is why they want to lumber you with a smart meter. Avoid at all costs if possible IMHO.

I guess if you work during the day time like majority of workers, higher prices beween 5am and 10am then 4pm to 8pm - you are going to be properly ..... avoid.

The option for time if use tariffs is one benefit of smart meters but far from the only one, as part of a national 'smart grid'. As for your 'business' aspect note it's not the suppliers who are choosing to roll out smart meters.

The "option" you refer to, Have you read my post you quoted about those that go to work?
From that you can see that rather than "option" you put it as, workers on the whole will have little "option." other than to use gas/elec at max rates. Meaning if you work, you are penalised.

Please enlighten me to the other "benefits" of smart meters or than reading them automatically like water meters.

I read your post. To date nobody has been forced onto a time of use tariff but many have chosen to for their own benefit. Hence 'option'.  

In a general sense I actually think charging that varies with demand/supply would likely be a good thing to help with the switch to more renewable power.

Thank you. I feel you've misunderstood my post. We can expect the suppliers to force all to have varying daily fuel rates throughout the day so peak hours when most workers leave and return home rates are higher. Trust me once there are enough smart meters it will happen as there is more money for the suppliers

Awfully hot here - have a nice day

No, I understood but am not accepting your premise. 

No problem as I've stated what I know about to be true and happy with that. On that note feel free to agree to disagree and nothing will change my mind as things stand.
Enjoy your day.

My concern is you're presenting as fact what is your personal speculation. As such it's important this is challenged for the benefit of the OP and others reading this thread .

[Deleted User]

diystarter7 said:

Ultrasonic said:

For the vast majority of people, smart meters just make things easier by no longer having to send readings to a supplier, and with the in-home display making it easier to monitor usage for those who wish to.

Don't forget, they are running a business. With smart meters as I posted on this forum, we considered and most said avoid then the day after I read re 'variable tariffs during a 24 hour period.'  It's coming and this is why they want to lumber you with a smart meter. Avoid at all costs if possible IMHO.

I guess if you work during the day time like majority of workers, higher prices beween 5am and 10am then 4pm to 8pm - you are going to be properly ..... avoid.

Twenty years ago, most people will have opined that email and chat would never replace pen; paper and stamps. The simple facts are that there are now more smart meters than analogue; there are waiting lists to fit smart meters, and suppliers have a legal right to replace an end-of-life meter with a smart meter. Over time, analogue meters will just not be made as there will be no demand for them.

Consumers who decide to hold out against getting a smart meter may well end up paying higher prices for doing so than those on time-of-use tariffs. For example, in Ontario, the supplier offers Winter and Summer 3 price tiered tariffs for those with a smart meter. For those without a smart meter, the supplier also offers a 2- tiered seasonal/monthly tariff that offers a small number of units at a low price with the rest at a high price. Pricing is designed to ‘encourage’ people to get a smart meter. 

In some European countries, consumers can get a low price tariff by agreeing to a maximum kW power limit at certain times of the day. The lower the kW limit: the lower the tariff cost.

These are just two examples of how tariffs will be changing. Moreover, in future, price comparison websites will no longer be based on kWh/year but actual pulled data from a smart meter. The comparison algorithm will then decide which is the best tariff fit for a consumer’s actual consumption. The tool to do this was developed 18 months ago.