IHT400 needed if adding RNRB to threshold?

Frank1964

Hi everybody,
Apologies as this must have been asked many times but each question seems to be slightly different due to personal circumstances.

As many of you will know the IHT400 multi page form looks like a nightmare.

The HMRC online IHT calculator is not accurate as it does not take RNRB and TRNRB into account.

So, to keep to the point, my late mums estate is valued roughly at £713,000, definitely not more than £750,000.
This breaks down to my estimate of the property which is in need to extensive refurbishment at approx £650,000 and £63,000 cash.

We qualify for double threshold relief as my dad left everything to my mum on his death many years ago.

So that's £650,000 of threshold plus we qualify for £175,000 RNRB for my mum and as my dads death was pre 2017 we qualify for a TRNRB of £100,000 as well.

That's a total relief of £925,000 and the estate doesn't come anywhere near that.

So, I have filled in IHT 435 and IHT 436. 
Do I have to fill in that IHT400 as it states it is only for when IHT is payable and clearly it is not payable or do HMRC want us to fill it in anyway so they can double check the estate?

The advice on the sticky thread re probate is out of date now as IHT 205 is obsolete.

Thanks very much for any advice or personal experiences.

Keep_pedalling

If your mother died after 31st December then you no longer have to use IHT400 to claim the RNRB. You simply need to complete the probate application and no IHT forms. 

shiraz99

Keep_pedalling said:

If your mother died after 31st December then you no longer have to use IHT400 to claim the RNRB. You simply need to complete the probate application and no IHT forms. 

Is that really the case? When I did my recent online probate application I played around with the IHT estate valuation tool using a couple of scenarios, firstly applying inherited NRB, and again but this time just using the RNRB and on that occasion it said the estate was above the IHT threshold and I'd be require to fill in the relevant IHT form.

shiraz99

Frank1964 said:

Hi everybody,
Apologies as this must have been asked many times but each question seems to be slightly different due to personal circumstances.

As many of you will know the IHT400 multi page form looks like a nightmare.

The HMRC online IHT calculator is not accurate as it does not take RNRB and TRNRB into account.

So, to keep to the point, my late mums estate is valued roughly at £713,000, definitely not more than £750,000.
This breaks down to my estimate of the property which is in need to extensive refurbishment at approx £650,000 and £63,000 cash.

We qualify for double threshold relief as my dad left everything to my mum on his death many years ago.

So that's £650,000 of threshold plus we qualify for £175,000 RNRB for my mum and as my dads death was pre 2017 we qualify for a TRNRB of £100,000 as well.

That's a total relief of £925,000 and the estate doesn't come anywhere near that.

So, I have filled in IHT 435 and IHT 436. 
Do I have to fill in that IHT400 as it states it is only for when IHT is payable and clearly it is not payable or do HMRC want us to fill it in anyway so they can double check the estate?

The advice on the sticky thread re probate is out of date now as IHT 205 is obsolete.

Thanks very much for any advice or personal experiences.

I don't think that's the fair to say. As far as I'm aware only the NRB and inherited NRB are used to calculate whether an estate is excepted or not, after this the RNRB and TRNRB thresholds are applied via the relevant IHT 400 forms.

Frank1964

Keep_pedalling said:

If your mother died after 31st December then you no longer have to use IHT400 to claim the RNRB. You simply need to complete the probate application and no IHT forms. 

Thanks for your reply.
I wasn't going to use IHT400to claim RNRB as I have fill in those specific forms 435 and 436.
So you think I can send those to forms off with a copy of the will with the probate application and that should be all that's needed?
I suppose I could do that and just see what they say.
Thanks again.

Frank1964

shiraz99 said:

Frank1964 said:

Hi everybody,
Apologies as this must have been asked many times but each question seems to be slightly different due to personal circumstances.

As many of you will know the IHT400 multi page form looks like a nightmare.

The HMRC online IHT calculator is not accurate as it does not take RNRB and TRNRB into account.

So, to keep to the point, my late mums estate is valued roughly at £713,000, definitely not more than £750,000.
This breaks down to my estimate of the property which is in need to extensive refurbishment at approx £650,000 and £63,000 cash.

We qualify for double threshold relief as my dad left everything to my mum on his death many years ago.

So that's £650,000 of threshold plus we qualify for £175,000 RNRB for my mum and as my dads death was pre 2017 we qualify for a TRNRB of £100,000 as well.

That's a total relief of £925,000 and the estate doesn't come anywhere near that.

So, I have filled in IHT 435 and IHT 436. 
Do I have to fill in that IHT400 as it states it is only for when IHT is payable and clearly it is not payable or do HMRC want us to fill it in anyway so they can double check the estate?

The advice on the sticky thread re probate is out of date now as IHT 205 is obsolete.

Thanks very much for any advice or personal experiences.

I don't think that's the fair to say. As far as I'm aware only the NRB and inherited NRB are used to calculate whether an estate is excepted or not, after this the RNRB and TRNRB thresholds are applied via the relevant IHT 400 forms.

Thanks for your reply.
Not sure though what you mean by not being fair.
I think you have just confirmed what I wrote about the calculator.
The calculator only takes into account the exemption threshold of £325k or £650k.
Some people are entitled to further allowances such as the RNRB and the TRNRB but the calculator does not allow this so it says that IHT has to be paid and use IHT400 when clearly no tax is due at all.
So I assume your answer is stating that I do in fact have to fill in IHT400 anyway.
Thanks again for your reply.

shiraz99

Frank1964 said:

shiraz99 said:

Frank1964 said:

Hi everybody,
Apologies as this must have been asked many times but each question seems to be slightly different due to personal circumstances.

As many of you will know the IHT400 multi page form looks like a nightmare.

The HMRC online IHT calculator is not accurate as it does not take RNRB and TRNRB into account.

So, to keep to the point, my late mums estate is valued roughly at £713,000, definitely not more than £750,000.
This breaks down to my estimate of the property which is in need to extensive refurbishment at approx £650,000 and £63,000 cash.

We qualify for double threshold relief as my dad left everything to my mum on his death many years ago.

So that's £650,000 of threshold plus we qualify for £175,000 RNRB for my mum and as my dads death was pre 2017 we qualify for a TRNRB of £100,000 as well.

That's a total relief of £925,000 and the estate doesn't come anywhere near that.

So, I have filled in IHT 435 and IHT 436. 
Do I have to fill in that IHT400 as it states it is only for when IHT is payable and clearly it is not payable or do HMRC want us to fill it in anyway so they can double check the estate?

The advice on the sticky thread re probate is out of date now as IHT 205 is obsolete.

Thanks very much for any advice or personal experiences.

I don't think that's the fair to say. As far as I'm aware only the NRB and inherited NRB are used to calculate whether an estate is excepted or not, after this the RNRB and TRNRB thresholds are applied via the relevant IHT 400 forms.

Thanks for your reply.
Not sure though what you mean by not being fair.
I think you have just confirmed what I wrote about the calculator.
The calculator only takes into account the exemption threshold of £325k or £650k.
Some people are entitled to further allowances such as the RNRB and the TRNRB but the calculator does not allow this so it says that IHT has to be paid and use IHT400 when clearly no tax is due at all.
So I assume your answer is stating that I do in fact have to fill in IHT400 anyway.
Thanks again for your reply.

I'm saying it's not fair to refer to the calculator as not accurate, it's working as it should be. All it does is calculates whether you have an excepted estate or not, and as I mentioned earlier the RNRB and TRNRB are not used in this initial calculation.

Keep_pedalling

Frank1964 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

If your mother died after 31st December then you no longer have to use IHT400 to claim the RNRB. You simply need to complete the probate application and no IHT forms. 

Thanks for your reply.
I wasn't going to use IHT400to claim RNRB as I have fill in those specific forms 435 and 436.
So you think I can send those to forms off with a copy of the will with the probate application and that should be all that's needed?
I suppose I could do that and just see what they say.
Thanks again.

Those are supplementary forms that are only used along with IHT 400, you can’t use them without also filling in IHT400.

Frank1964

@keep_pedalling.
Thanks very much.

retroman62

Frank1964 said:

So that's £650,000 of threshold plus we qualify for £175,000 RNRB for my mum and as my dads death was pre 2017 we qualify for a TRNRB of £100,000 as well.

I'm new to all of this, but just starting to look into it as I will soon be having to deal with father's estate, and according to the govt website, it seems to be suggesting that (unused) TRNRB is available to transfer up to 100%, which by definition must be at 100% for anyone who died before 2017 because it wasn't available then and therefore unused. So, to the OP, surely £175,000, not £100,000, or am I missing something (which is entirely probable!). 

Keep_pedalling

retroman62 said:

Frank1964 said:

So that's £650,000 of threshold plus we qualify for £175,000 RNRB for my mum and as my dads death was pre 2017 we qualify for a TRNRB of £100,000 as well.

I'm new to all of this, but just starting to look into it as I will soon be having to deal with father's estate, and according to the govt website, it seems to be suggesting that (unused) TRNRB is available to transfer up to 100%, which by definition must be at 100% for anyone who died before 2017 because it wasn't available then and therefore unused. So, to the OP, surely £175,000, not £100,000, or am I missing something (which is entirely probable!). 

No you are not missing anything, it is the percentage of the current rate not the rate at the date of death, which as you say would be zero for pre 2017 deaths. I thought I had pointed that out earlier in the thread but I think I must have imagined I did.