Economy 7, Night Store Heaters and the Price Cap

Ragged1953

I was more  disappointed to learn that the much publicised 54% increase didn't apply to my reduced night time tariff.
Being reliant upon electric heating ( remote location, no gas) we use huge amounts of electric to feed the four heaters so they might release the stored heat during the day and evening ( that's the theory and apologies to those familiar with the system).
No, 54% didn't apply.
132% did.
As these heaters constitute almost 80% of our monthly use ...I was more disappointed.
The supplier informed me ( I had to ask!) that the Economy 7 was targeted in order to protect the majority.
Ah! So I was paying 132% more to subsidize everyone else!! Clever.
But as a disabled pensioners this didn't cheer me.
To heat one heater for one night will cost £5.42 if the Autumn increase is 35% more.
4 heaters  and it's £21 a day of £630 a month.
More than my State Pension.
I complained again and was told they had resolved the complaint by giving me £25. Which I declined. It hadn't been resolved.
My next post will be brief as I list the benefits of living in England.

QrizB

Welcome to the forum.

There's a link in my signature (the little bit of text below this message) to an explanation of the price cap, plus a link from that post that explains how it works for Economy 7.

Please provide full workings for your claim that you will be spending £630 per month on heat in the winter, since that would suggest over 20kWh per heater, per day. I suspect that you have miscalculated.

Ragged1953

Thank you for your reply and interest.
I'm quite numerate, and have bills for the last two winters.
Calculated the costs using the tariff/kWh cost at 7 hours per night using the figures given and verified, first by customer posted meter readings and subsequently via Smart meter. 
I shan't publish the company details on a public forum, suffice to say it isn't the one named in your message. I assume the Economy 7 tariff is unique to each company. I selected the one with the lowest night tariff at the time, changing from one now in administration..
Perhaps we use one heater and extrapolate. When charging my car, so many hours at 7.3kw, 5.5 hrs at current night rate is around £6+
3.4kw heater. 27p per kWh. 7 hours/night. ( Estimated economy 7 rate from October)
Times 4 heaters, per day.
Times 30 for a month.

I'd be delighted to discover I have significantly miscalculated 
Kindest regards and thanks again.

BUFF

Ragged1953 said:

I was more  disappointed to learn that the much publicised 54% increase didn't apply to my reduced night time tariff.
Being reliant upon electric heating ( remote location, no gas) we use huge amounts of electric to feed the four heaters so they might release the stored heat during the day and evening ( that's the theory and apologies to those familiar with the system).
No, 54% didn't apply.
132% did.

were you coming off a fix?

Ragged1953

No. I had changed recently from another company in order to benefit from this one's lower night rate.
As such a large percentage of my use was Economy 7 it made sense to focus on that principally. With only about 20% of my usage higher day rate .
Even now with no heating on the monthly bill is over £110... but that's two people, and quite normal currently I feel.

EssexHebridean

From memory it doesn't quite work like that with the heaters though - similar to an immersion heater - ours is theoretically "on" from 1am > 8am currently, albeit with a few hours gap in the middle where the timer cuts it out. Pretty much 5 hours of "active time" though. Again IRC it's a 3kw element - but that doesn't mean it uses 15kWh of electricity each night (which on our current night rate - which I assume is the same or close to yours at 17p - would cost £2.55). How do I know this so definitely? Well for the first thing, when I left home this morning having run the WM overnight, had the immersion on as always, and each of us having had a shower, our use was in the region of 70p. Secondly though, and more seriously, variables like the temperature of the water in the tank to start with and the fact that the thermostat on the tank means it will only heat the water to the set temperature and will then cut out.

If you are currently looking at charges of £110 a month however, then that IS high for this time of year I'd suggest - my July bill has £49.16 of charges on it - it should be a little lower than that as the end of month reading was an estimate. We use gas for cooking, but are electric for everything else. Again - 2 people in the property. 

If I am correct and it was UW you are with by the way, their pre-April night rate was artificially low. I wasn't surprised, albeit still disappointed, when they increased it by 10p. I suspect they're likely to stick at least another 10p on it in October as well - that would bring it into line with what a lot of companies have been offering for their fixes. 

Ragged1953

Thank you for your thoughts and I concur fully on the issue of immersion heaters and the thermostat.
Modern NSHeaters, while having open window detection and thermostatic control is fundamentally different in operation.
Their function is to heat an open air space not an enclosed tank of liquid.
As such they are releasing heat constantly depending upon the size of space ( which determines the variables) according to setting used.
We are adept at the efficient use of heaters, have adequate loft insulation and full double glazing.
The Kw figures ( both day and night) whether submitted or generated don't lie.
The arithmetic is basic and uncontested by the supplier.
The exorbitant increase of 132% thus far in the Night rate is a serious issue.
The admission it was raised to protect those who aren't on the Economy 7 tariff is ethically questionable.
The belief that a £25 sweetener constitutes a ' resolution ' is fantasy.
Thank you for your views and taking the time to help clarify.
Kind regards 

EssexHebridean

I believe you have misunderstood the reason for the disproportionate night rat increase slightly although I appreciate that it sounds as though the way it was worded to you wasn't the best. My understanding of the situation certainly where UW are concerned is that it's not to "protect those not on E7" but more to balance things for the majority of E7 users. We use something like 75 - 80% of our electricity at the night rate - it would appear that your use is clearly a lot more balanced towards day-time use allowing for your current monthly costs. (So in fact all those like us using the vast majority of their electricity in the overnight period could be said to be subsidising YOU...! )

We currently have a single Quantum heater installed at home and the additional controllability and increased heat retention without question mean that it is both more effective in doing its job AND cheaper to run than our older box-of-bricks ones.  

As a first port of call for reducing your costs, I'd look to see how much better use you can make of that night rate because ultimately, even though it's a lot more than it used to be, it's still FAR cheaper than the supply for the other 17 hours of the day, isn't it! 

Ragged1953

Thank you again for your reply.
It may be I have been less clear than I had wished.
My original post to this young thread , I think, stated that, like you, between 75 and 80% of our energy use is at night.
Specifically the heating (not this week), the washing machine, tumble dryer, immersion, the car ( local use, and currently £15.00 a month.....the other,small, car mustn't visit the petrol station ever again!).
Day use is typical: cooking, lighting, fibre, and the small light occasional charging of devices, hoover and so forth.
Very typical.
When I joined this supplier the rates/tariffs had no headline warnings like a sale at DFS. Nothing was advisory. No obvious time constraints. We all accept extraneous events beyond the control even of sovereign states but apart from seismic shocks like Ukraine what is offered is as per.
An average increase of 54% made national headlines, forced government to intervene again in the energy sector, prompted a multi billion aid package for millions of citizens. All this because of 54%.
Nobody mentioned 132%. Certainly not the energy company.

EssexHebridean

I'm curious to know - what percentage did your day rate increase by?

Ragged1953

Day rate rose by about 12% while the standing charge rose by slightly more than 100%
Clearly a 54% increase across the board would have been: simpler to calculate!; Fairer; and, while painful for everyone, those on night rate intensive bills wouldn't be feeling penalised.
Additionally, recent research has found a disproportionate number of homes with Economy 7 share a number of factors: old inefficient properties, older occupants, higher percentage of disabled needing home-based electronic and electrical services and devices.
Many of the precise people less fit to shoulder a disproportionate, 132% increase.
I don't fit into all of the categories.