STANDING CHARGES STEALTH TAX

epsom

EssexHebridean said:

As a very low user of gas, I built up a "debt" of over £400 ---JUST FOR STANDING CHARGES, over a number of years.

Why did you not choose a zero standing charge tariff when they were easily available? That's what we did - as I mentioned through Ebico for one, and there were a couple of other companies we were with at various times to. Just paid a monthly DD of £1.50 or so for the gas used. Once those companies ceased to trade, or ceased to trade with that model, we increased the Direct Debit - initially to £7 a month, and now to £10. We still run in credit though - because we've kept an eye on what our DD needs to be to cover the costs we have to pay... You can't reasonably blame the SC for incurring the debt over "a number of years" when for several of those years you could have, had you chosen to, avoided paying the SC at all? It's only been since the middle of last year we've been back on a tariff with a SC attached. 

If you are struggling to clear your debt and meet the current costs of your gas bill, then drop a post with our SOA over on the Debt Free Wannabe board and we'll be happy to take a look and see if we can help. It's best not to ignore it though or you may find yourself on a pre-payment meter which will cost you more in the first place. 

*edit* That's good gen on Utilita's current costings by the way - although they would be way more expensive for us for electricity I may well consider them for gas later in the year then. Thanks! 

I would have chosen a zero standing charge tariff if they were available at the time, but they weren't. If they were available, I would have joined them.
I used to have a zero SC with SSE---they then introduced one, and I switched supplier. At that time there were no other companies with a zero SC.
I have always has a pre-payment meter PAYG----and now pre-payment smart meters PAYG.

My debt of over £400 is now cleared---and that was on the understanding that I had smart meters installed with my new energy supplier. The gas "debt" was then set to zero.

Utilita's smart energy pre-payment electricity rate is 50.370p /kWh FIRST RATE and 28.980p /kWh SAVER RATE

epsom

Ultrasonic said:

What_time_is_it said:

"I know exactly what I pay because it is still very basic, there is a daily charge (Standing Charge) and a charge based on usage, that should be understandable by any mentally competent adult."

I don't think this is case. I am sure that vast majority of people do not really understand their energy bills. They are deliberately made to be confusing, hard to compare, and overly complicated. Terms such as SVR, standing charges, kwhs, price cap, energy regulator, etc are not properly understood by most people.

Regardless of whether you think standing charges are fair or not, there is clearly a strong case for enforcing a simplified pricing structure that priorities clarity.

There is nothing inherently hard for anyone to understand about the standing charge. It's a concept just like phone companies charging a fixed monthly 'line rental' fee with calls charges on top depending on usage, and I've never heard anyone try to argue that is somehow too difficult a concept for most people to understand.

Overwhelmingly I think the issue with most people properly understanding their energy bills comes more from a general lack of awareness of how much energy they actually use.

As to the core question of this thread: I'm a low energy user but think the standing charge concept is a totally logical and fair one that does not need changing.

It's not about understanding the SC, it's about FAIRNESS.
if you are prepared to pay INCREASING SC on top of already greatly increased energy costs themselves, then there is not much else to say about you.
Those who continually compare other utilities such as phone rental and water are missing the point.
You think that SC should go up in line with the energy costs?...If so, give your explanation why?.

"""OPENDEMOCRACYUK: NEWS

UK Big Six energy firms made more than £1bn in profit ahead of price hike

Exclusive: Analysis of most recent accounts shows huge profits as customers face soaring energy bills"""

Maybe the windfall tax on some of these companies should be every year instead of a one off.......

red_flump

Utilita's smart energy pre-payment electricity rate is 50.370p /kWh FIRST RATE and 28.980p /kWh SAVER RATE

First rate is for the first 2 kWh, so equiv to 43p/day S/C, but you save if usage below 2 kWh

Ultrasonic

epsom said:

Ultrasonic said:

What_time_is_it said:

"I know exactly what I pay because it is still very basic, there is a daily charge (Standing Charge) and a charge based on usage, that should be understandable by any mentally competent adult."

I don't think this is case. I am sure that vast majority of people do not really understand their energy bills. They are deliberately made to be confusing, hard to compare, and overly complicated. Terms such as SVR, standing charges, kwhs, price cap, energy regulator, etc are not properly understood by most people.

Regardless of whether you think standing charges are fair or not, there is clearly a strong case for enforcing a simplified pricing structure that priorities clarity.

There is nothing inherently hard for anyone to understand about the standing charge. It's a concept just like phone companies charging a fixed monthly 'line rental' fee with calls charges on top depending on usage, and I've never heard anyone try to argue that is somehow too difficult a concept for most people to understand.

Overwhelmingly I think the issue with most people properly understanding their energy bills comes more from a general lack of awareness of how much energy they actually use.

As to the core question of this thread: I'm a low energy user but think the standing charge concept is a totally logical and fair one that does not need changing.

It's not about understanding the SC, it's about FAIRNESS.
if you are prepared to pay INCREASING SC on top of already greatly increased energy costs themselves, then there is not much else to say about you.
Those who continually compare other utilities such as phone rental and water are missing the point.
You think that SC should go up in line with the energy costs?...If so, give your explanation why?.

Firstly note that I quoted a specific comment from somebody else, not you. This was where the understanding element came from.

Re. your point in bold, have you actually read the sticky thread that others pointed you to yet? This explains that the bulk of the increase is due to covering the costs associated with protecting the customers of the many suppliers that went bust last year. This is protection that all energy customers were and still are covered by. In terms of the underlying infrastructure provision/maintenance element, I can see energy cost an other inflationary elements will likely increase costs to National Grid and so an increased charge to customers wouldn't seem wholly unreasonable.

None of us like paying higher bills but those expressing a different view to your own are simply reflecting that when you look into the details what is happening is broadly justifiable.

epsom

red_flump said:

Utilita's smart energy pre-payment electricity rate is 50.370p /kWh FIRST RATE and 28.980p /kWh SAVER RATE

First rate is for the first 2 kWh, so equiv to 43p/day S/C, but you save if usage below 2 kWh

I would be interested in the gas only --their gas rate for pre payment smart meter is 25.869 p/kWh with no SC.
I would be extremely happy with that as a very low user.
They did say they could do gas only (when they start taking applications again).

EssexHebridean

epsom said:

EssexHebridean said:

As a very low user of gas, I built up a "debt" of over £400 ---JUST FOR STANDING CHARGES, over a number of years.

Why did you not choose a zero standing charge tariff when they were easily available? That's what we did - as I mentioned through Ebico for one, and there were a couple of other companies we were with at various times to. Just paid a monthly DD of £1.50 or so for the gas used. Once those companies ceased to trade, or ceased to trade with that model, we increased the Direct Debit - initially to £7 a month, and now to £10. We still run in credit though - because we've kept an eye on what our DD needs to be to cover the costs we have to pay... You can't reasonably blame the SC for incurring the debt over "a number of years" when for several of those years you could have, had you chosen to, avoided paying the SC at all? It's only been since the middle of last year we've been back on a tariff with a SC attached. 

If you are struggling to clear your debt and meet the current costs of your gas bill, then drop a post with our SOA over on the Debt Free Wannabe board and we'll be happy to take a look and see if we can help. It's best not to ignore it though or you may find yourself on a pre-payment meter which will cost you more in the first place. 

*edit* That's good gen on Utilita's current costings by the way - although they would be way more expensive for us for electricity I may well consider them for gas later in the year then. Thanks! 

I would have chosen a zero standing charge tariff if they were available at the time, but they weren't. If they were available, I would have joined them.
I used to have a zero SC with SSE---they then introduced one, and I switched supplier. At that time there were no other companies with a zero SC.

How strange - I first joined Ebico in 2014 and was with them through until 2020 when they passed their business to British Gas. That was always on a zero standing charge basis, so the options were definitely out there! when we first joined them the lowest DD they could set was £10 - they used to charge us for a couple of months, then just not take the DD for the rest of the year, and still we overpaid!

pochase

There is no tariff "First Rate" and "Saver Rate", they are both parts of the same tariff.



As @red_flump already wrote, the standing charge is collected through the higher rate of the first two KWh for gas and electricity.

It is still worth it if you don't use gas in summer, but it is not a tariff without you paying a standing charge, even so they call it differently, you still pay the same if you use at least 2 KWh.

epsom

pochase said:

There is no tariff "First Rate" and "Saver Rate", they are both parts of the same tariff.



As @red_flump already wrote, the standing charge is collected through the higher rate of the first two KWh for gas and electricity.

It is still worth it if you don't use gas in summer, but it is not a tariff without you paying a standing charge, even so they call it differently, you still pay the same if you use at least 2 KWh.

""No standing charge. No hidden costs.

We’re one of the only energy suppliers to have no standing charge. This means you won’t pay anything if you don’t use any energy"".

Yes..... the gas charge per unit is a lot higher than other suppliers---BUT, I am very happy to pay that unit charge, as I do not use a lot by any means.

Alnat1

If your gas use is so low why not have the gas disconnected. You can use bottled Calor type gas, no standing charge, should make you happy. 

epsom

Alnat1 said:

If your gas use is so low why not have the gas disconnected. You can use bottled Calor type gas, no standing charge, should make you happy. 

I said I am a low user.... not that I do not use it.
I have gas central heating, but living alone, I use as little as possible---even in winter.