one full months calendar notice - what is a month?

Ectophile

outtatune said:

Ath_Wat said:

user1977 said:

mattyprice4004 said:

Pretty standard - open a calendar to any month and it’s pretty unambiguous what they mean by a ‘calendar month’.

Less obvious what they mean by a "month calendar"...Yoda speak like sounds.

It might be a bit clumsy, but what else could it possibly mean but a calendar month?

A 'calendar month' to me means that the exact amount of time will vary depending on how many days there are in the month the period starts. Sow a calendar month from July 8th will be 31 days until August 7th, whereas a calendar month from Feb 2nd will be either 28 or 20 days to March 1st.

What it doesn't mean to me is 'the rest of this month plus the entirety of the next month'. Because that's not a month.

That's not a calendar month, it's bits of two months.  A calendar shows one whole month at a time.

So if we're in the middle of July, then a calendar month's notice would be the whole of August.

Manxman_in_exile

Ectophile said:

outtatune said:

Ath_Wat said:

user1977 said:

mattyprice4004 said:

Pretty standard - open a calendar to any month and it’s pretty unambiguous what they mean by a ‘calendar month’.

Less obvious what they mean by a "month calendar"...Yoda speak like sounds.

It might be a bit clumsy, but what else could it possibly mean but a calendar month?

A 'calendar month' to me means that the exact amount of time will vary depending on how many days there are in the month the period starts. Sow a calendar month from July 8th will be 31 days until August 7th, whereas a calendar month from Feb 2nd will be either 28 or 20 days to March 1st.

What it doesn't mean to me is 'the rest of this month plus the entirety of the next month'. Because that's not a month.

That's not a calendar month, it's bits of two months.  A calendar shows one whole month at a time.

So if we're in the middle of July, then a calendar month's notice would be the whole of August.

So you mean that If I give one calendar months notice on 13th July, it would expire at midnight at the end of 31st August, rather than at midnight at the end of 12th August?

That's an interpretation of "one calendar months notice" that I've never, ever, considered.

In order to avoid ambiguity and to provide certainty, why wouldn't you just specify that notice would expire at the end of the calendar month following that in which notice was given?  That would be so much more transparent.

TELLIT01

Manxman_in_exile said:

So you mean that If I give one calendar months notice on 13th July, it would expire at midnight at the end of 31st August, rather than at midnight at the end of 12th August?

That's an interpretation of "one calendar months notice" that I've never, ever, considered.

In order to avoid ambiguity and to provide certainty, why wouldn't you just specify that notice would expire at the end of the calendar month following that in which notice was given?  That would be so much more transparent.

That is precisely how it should be worded.  The example you give is nowhere near the worst possible example.  Give notice on the 2nd of the month and you are stuck with the contract for marginally short of two months.  That can't be reasonable.  It probably needs to be challenged in court, or taken up with Trading Standards.

Manxman_in_exile

TELLIT01 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

So you mean that If I give one calendar months notice on 13th July, it would expire at midnight at the end of 31st August, rather than at midnight at the end of 12th August?

That's an interpretation of "one calendar months notice" that I've never, ever, considered.

In order to avoid ambiguity and to provide certainty, why wouldn't you just specify that notice would expire at the end of the calendar month following that in which notice was given?  That would be so much more transparent.

That is precisely how it should be worded.  The example you give is nowhere near the worst possible example.  Give notice on the 2nd of the month and you are stuck with the contract for marginally short of two months.  That can't be reasonable.  It probably needs to be challenged in court, or taken up with Trading Standards.

Quite.  It's come as news to me that the phrase "give one calendar months notice" could mean having to give between as much as 32 and 62 days notice

user1977

Manxman_in_exile said:

Ectophile said:

outtatune said:

Ath_Wat said:

user1977 said:

mattyprice4004 said:

Pretty standard - open a calendar to any month and it’s pretty unambiguous what they mean by a ‘calendar month’.

Less obvious what they mean by a "month calendar"...Yoda speak like sounds.

It might be a bit clumsy, but what else could it possibly mean but a calendar month?

A 'calendar month' to me means that the exact amount of time will vary depending on how many days there are in the month the period starts. Sow a calendar month from July 8th will be 31 days until August 7th, whereas a calendar month from Feb 2nd will be either 28 or 20 days to March 1st.

What it doesn't mean to me is 'the rest of this month plus the entirety of the next month'. Because that's not a month.

That's not a calendar month, it's bits of two months.  A calendar shows one whole month at a time.

So if we're in the middle of July, then a calendar month's notice would be the whole of August.

So you mean that If I give one calendar months notice on 13th July, it would expire at midnight at the end of 31st August, rather than at midnight at the end of 12th August?

That's an interpretation of "one calendar months notice" that I've never, ever, considered.

In order to avoid ambiguity and to provide certainty, why wouldn't you just specify that notice would expire at the end of the calendar month following that in which notice was given?  That would be so much more transparent.

I agree it ought to have been worded more clearly, but are you saying there's no difference in your eyes between "one month's notice" and "one calendar month's notice"? The former would certainly mean expiring 12 August, the latter would at least flag up some potential ambiguity in what was intended (and I think on balance, probably implies the end of the calendar month).

Manxman_in_exile

Yes - I see the point you're making.

The difficulty I have is that I have sometimes seen "month" used apparently interchangeably with 28 days, four weeks or 31 days, but calendar month clarifies (or so I thought!) what is meant.

If what is intended by the term "full calendar month" is what you are suggesting, then I would adopt either the wording I used earlier or simply say something to the effect that (1) membership can only end on the last day of a month and (2) notice of at least one month (calendar or four weeks or 31 days or whatever is wanted) must be given to end membership.  That would be perfectly clear as to when membership ends and by when notice must be given.

Like TELLIT01 I've never understood the phrase to mean "at the end of the calendar month following the month in which notice is given".  But I've never been a member of a gym or a swimming club or any "commercial" group like that whose purpose is to maximise their revenue!

Sandtree

Manxman_in_exile said:

TELLIT01 said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

So you mean that If I give one calendar months notice on 13th July, it would expire at midnight at the end of 31st August, rather than at midnight at the end of 12th August?

That's an interpretation of "one calendar months notice" that I've never, ever, considered.

In order to avoid ambiguity and to provide certainty, why wouldn't you just specify that notice would expire at the end of the calendar month following that in which notice was given?  That would be so much more transparent.

That is precisely how it should be worded.  The example you give is nowhere near the worst possible example.  Give notice on the 2nd of the month and you are stuck with the contract for marginally short of two months.  That can't be reasonable.  It probably needs to be challenged in court, or taken up with Trading Standards.

Quite.  It's come as news to me that the phrase "give one calendar months notice" could mean having to give between as much as 32 and 62 days notice

Lower bound would be 28 or 29 days depending on how a cancellation given at 1 minute past midnight on 1st Feb (non-leap year) is treated. Even if you take it to mean notice on the 12th of the month runs out on the 12th of the next month still is a variable duration. 

I've more commonly seen it worded as give "one whole calendar month's notice" which isn't massively clearer but given a "calendar month" is July, December, May etc not 4 weeks or 31 days etc then giving notice on 13 July arguable takes you to the end of August as that's when a whole calendar month has passed whilst you are under notice. 

Whilst you could argue its done to maximise the duration under contract that could more easily be achieved by saying its 8 weeks notice which on average would be longer. Often what it does do and is used for is to avoid part months and so there is no need for doing part month payments and/or refunds so simplifies billing.